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Episode 14 - Sexual Negotiations

This episode of Siyayinqoba Beat It! explores how children are raised by their parents and how this impacts on their integration and socialisation into communities. There are many socially and culturally defined gender roles which shape and influence the way the child perceives the world to be, and how the world treats the child. This fascinating and vast subject is under the spotlight in this week's show. We see how pre-determined ideas about sex and other issues are all based on upbringing.

Shalom Ncala: Sanibonani babukeli emakhaya siyanamukela kwiSiyayinqoba Beat it! Lolu uhlelo lwakhe noba wubani ophila negciwane lengculaza abathandiweyo babo,yimindeni,abangani,abasebenza nabo ngisho phela nabasebenzi bezempilo. Samkela ithimba elesekelayo. (isiZulu). Hello and welcome to Siyayinqoba Beat It! The programme for everyone meeting and beating the challenge s of HIV/AIDS. Our family members, friends, colleagues or health workers. Welcome to the support group.

Support group: Hello Shalom

Shalom: Namhlanje sikhuluma ngezintelelo ezibhelelene nentsha kanye nenye yezindlela engasetshenziswa ukuze izigcine ingenalo igciwane lesandulela ngculaza. Ucwaninge lukhomba ukuthi wonke umuntu unolwazi ngesandulela ngculaza,ulwazi oluningi mayela nesandulela ngculaza luqondiswe entsheni ngaphambi kokuba izibandakanye ocantsini.Kodwa ke umbuzo uthi ingaba iyazivikela yini uma isingene ocantsini. Akhe siye eMpumalanga Koloni sikhe siyothola ukuthi abantwana besikolo samabanga angaphantsi bacabanga ni ngalesandulela ngculaza (isiZulu). Today we are talking about the challenges facing young people to keep themselves free from HIV. Surveys show that everyone is aware of the risk of HIV. A lot of HIV information is aimed at young people before they become sexually active, but what happens when they start having sex? Do they actually keep it safe? Let's go to the Eastern Cape to find out what a group of primary school children think about sex and HIV.

Lelethu Bangani: Molweni namhlanje siseZwelitsha kwisikolo ekuthiwa yiHector Peterson Senior Secondary sizothetha about sex and HIV (isiXhosa). Hello today we're in Zwelitsha  at Hector Peterson Secondary School to talk about sex and HIV.

Students: Hello Siyayinqoba!

Lelethu: Sorry I want to know senditsho like I want to know what do you know about sex? Yeyiphi into eniyaziyo about sex? (isiXhosa). What I would like to know is what do you know about sex? How much do you know about sex?

Girl 1 in class: Funeka isex uyihave atleast xa upha ku15 because if uyihave mhlawumbi pha 13 or 12 izokuxaka. Otherwise senditsho ba usenokhulelwa kuba awukazi nto about isex, senditsho ba abazali bethu bathanda ukusixelela ngesex xa sipha ko15 or 16 yiyo lonto endiyaziyo (isiXhosa). You must start having sex at least when you're about 15, because if you start at age 13 or 12 you're going to get into trouble. You might fall pregnant because you still don't know that much about sex. Our parents should talk to us about sex when we're about 15 or 16. That's what I know.

Girl 2 in class: Xa ungumntana uqala kwistage ohamba ngakuzo uqala kwistage sobuntwana nakwi teenage. So mna what I think ukuyenza isex funeka xa ulinde ixesha elidala ne, maybe when you are married (isiXhosa). When you grow up, you pass through different stages, from infant to teenager. So I think you must wait until you're at a much later stage to have sex, maybe until you're married.

Girl 3 in class: Andivumelani mna nosisi xa esithi xa ena15 because xa ena15 usemncimnci kakhulu for ukwenza isex (isiXhosa). I don't agree with starting at age 15 because age 15 is too young to start having sex.

Lelethu: So nicinga senditsho like why as ulutsha oluncinci olungangathi lu affecteke kakhulu lona kwiAIDS whereas nisithi no masilinde whereas abantu abafuni kulinda,so what message onokuyithi pass to abantu (isiXhosa). Why do you think young people are so affected by HIV/AIDS? You're saying people should wait but nobody wants to wait, so what message should we be passing to people out there?

Boy 1 in class: Abantwana abaninzi ngoku baleqa ukuhave isex at the stage bamhlawumbi about 13 or 14 years baleqa uhave isex. And then umntana ona14 years uleqa uhave isex nomntu ona 21 years iyenzeka lonto leyo sonke siyayazi,awusazi istatus salamntu lamntu zange wadiscloser apha kuwe. So okokuqala iAIDS sithi abanokuzibeka kwirisk yeAIDS (isiXhosa). Many young people rush into sex at about age 13 or 14. A 14 year old girl will have sex with a 21 year old man. It happens we all know that, and she doesn't know that guy's status, he doesn't disclose to her. So when it comes to HIV/ AIDS we put ourselves at risk.

Girl 4 in class: Itshomi zabo zizabafaka apha kulento yokuba zilale namakhwenkwe and then athi umntu akuba neHIV ngoku itshomi zibaleke and isex ayibaleki izakuba khona naxa umdala so suyileqa uleqe esa stage sokuba mawu have isex, because uzakuthi xa ufika kwesa stage sokuba mawu have isex ube sowungenye into kengoku endingayaziyo. (isiXhosa). Friend will influence you to sleep with boys, and then once you have HIV the friends disappear. Sex will still be there when you're older. So don't rush to have sex because you're going to get to start stage.

Lelethu: So nicinga senditsho ba like ngobani abafanele ukuba bayafundisa ngendlela yokusebenzisa icondom. Ingaba kufanele ukuba nifundiswa esikolweni okanye nifundiswa ekhaya okanye kwi clinics (isiXhosa). Who do you think should teach you about using condoms, at schools, at home or at the clinics?

Girl 1 in class: Senditsho ba netishara zingasifundisa ngokusebenzisa icondom because ngabonabona basixelela kakuhle because kwi Life Orientation siyatitshwa about iHIV/ AIDS, ipeer pressure isex (isiXhosa). Teachers should teach us about condoms because they're better et explaining things. In the Life Orientation class they teach us about HIV/AIDS, peer pressure and sex.

Girl 5 in class: I think umntu ozakukwazi ukufundisa ngecondoms ngoonesi ngoba icondoms zi most available kwi clinics (isiXhosa). I think nurses should teach us about condoms because condoms are mostly available at the clinics.

Pholokgolo Ramothwala: (SeSotho) In that insert, I noticed that one of the things they didn't say regarding who is supposed to teach them about using condoms, nobody mentioned parents. And that really, really surprises me because this guy says after school they go home.

Busi Maqungo: You know being a parent mna I've been through lonto leyo because I thought especially kuba ndandingulo mzali u educated ngoku ngento zeHIV and staff and staff. And I thought I wanted to be this cool mom who discusses sex with her kids and staff. At the end of the day I ended up ngoku ndisenza it just doesn't feel comfortable umntana akabi kho comfortable to talk sex with abazali bakhe. I don't know ba mhlawumbi kwabanye abantu iyenzeka nalonto leyo (isiXhosa). Being a parent myself I've been through that, especially because I'm a parent who is educated about HIV, I thought I wanted to be this cool mom who discusses sex with her kids. I realized that it just doesn't feel comfortable. Children don't feel comfortable talking to their parents about sex. I don't know if it happens to other people.

Shalom: It doesn't necessarily mean that as a parent wena you mustn't make I environment ukuthi ibe condusive for abantwana ukuthi bangakhuluma ngesex nawe,because once you close that door mistakes happen. I know mina ngami because certain doors were closed for mina and I had to find out these from friends. I peer pressure plays a lot of lokhunjana, of influence kumntana osesemncane whereby udecider ukwenza izinto angazange azazisise ukuthi kahle kahle why am I suppose to do them (isiZulu). It doesn't mean that as a parent , you must not make the environment condusive for your child to talk to you about sex. Certain doors were closed for me and I had to find out things from friends. Peer pressure plays a significant role in a young child's life because they decide to do things they know nothing about.

Luckyboy Mkhonzwane: Manje siphila esikhathini la kunezifo njenge HIV/AIDS. Thina abanye bethu could not have ended up sinayo if mhlawumbe abazali bethu bebenendlela yokuthi ba open up to thina basitshele ukuthi kune nto enje (isiZulu). We're living in a time of HIV. Some of us would not have ended up with HIV if our parents were open about it and explained to us in detail.

Busi: Umbuzo wam umile kuthi sonke apha. Ukuba okokuqala at what age thina njengokuba sihleli apha esaqala ukwazi ngokuba kurongo ukwenza isex at a certain age, okwesibini at what age did we all of us here start having sex. Did we have information?we did not have the information because mna I think at a young age I knew that you are not suppose to have sex umncimnci but then again lonto leyo zange,nandinayo lo information kodwa I didn't use it I went ahead and had sex at a young age (isiXhosa). My question stands to all of you. How old were you when you knew it was wrong to have sex at a certain age? Secondly, at what age did we start having sex? I knew at a young age you were not supposed to have sex when you are too young, but then, I had all the information but didn't use it. I went ahead and had sex at a young age. I just want us to be honest.

Pholokgolo: (SeSotho) Communication about sex and HIV has improved. T hat is why we have life orientation at schools. In our time we didn't have it. The sex that we were supposed to have at the time, the reasons behind it was more about not falling pregnant.

Victor Lakay: I don't think they did speak openly enough I didn't have any sex education at home. And I don't think parents can applicate the responsibility we have, we know that we have high rate of teenage pregnancies in South Africa and we have high rates of HIV. So I think parents and teachers have the responsibility to talk about sex and the abstain message is dysfunctional, because Busi is right when she's saying that we going to be all dead. I had sex too by age 16 again we might not be comfortable saying that on national TV but we had and we heard messages even though fact is we had sex we can't be told to abstain because we're going to have sex. We must be told if we going to, if we must delay sex, if we're not going to delay sex we should practice safe sex.

Nokubonga Yawa: At least ngoku kuyathethwa eziradio bayacetyiswa abazali into yokuba na thetha njani nomntana xana umntana eqalisa uku menstrueta and ibangabo abazali ukuqala ukuthatha abantwana athi nethi umntana eqalisa umenstueta amse ekliniki for ba makayohlaba inaliti (isiXhosa). At least now there are shows on radio that advise parents on how to speak to their children once they start menstruating. Parents send their daughters to the clinic for contraceptives when they start menstruating.

Busi: Instead of taking umntana to ekliniki uyomhlabisa yithi xa ubona ngoku ba naku uyamenstrueta uthi uyabona ke sisi uya menstrueta ke ngoku, ukuba ngaba ukhe wane nkwenkwe waze walala nayo (that is having sex with a boy) nantsi into ezakulandela. Okokuqala izakuba yi unwanted pregnancy because you don't want to be a mother at 14 right, okwesibini the biggest ke ngoku eyona nto izaba nkulu its HIV ngaphezu nje kwe unwanted pregnancy and everything else uzaba ne HIV ezakusticker with you for the rest of your life (isiXhosa). Instead of taking her to the clinic for contraceptives when she starts menstruating, you should tell her about the responsibility that comes with having sex with a boy. Firstly, unwanted pregnancy because you don't want to be a mother at 14. Secondly, the biggest fear should be to contract HIV on top of falling pregnant. You will have HIV that will stick with you for the rest of your life.

Shalom: Ninganyakazi sizobuya khona maduzane (isiZulu). Don't go away. We'll be back soon.

Shalom: Siyanamukela futhi kuSiyayinqoba Beat It! Namhlanje sikhuluma ngokuthi kwenzakalani uma intsha izibandakanya ocantsini. Makhe siye Egoli siyozwa ukuthi ingxenye yamantombazana asemancane kungabe ithini (isiZulu). Welcome back to Siyayinqoba Beat It! Today we're talking about what really happens when young people start having sex. Let's go to Jozi and see what a group of young women have to say.

Tumi: (SeSotho) I'm with my friends to talk about using condoms.

Friends: We're going to go out tonight, we're going to have fun and we're going to party.

Tumi: (SeSetho) When you go out and meet guys, what do you do?

Mamedi Ramaisa: (SeSotho) Guys like me very much when I dance. They like the way I move.

Palesa Phosisi: She's the one who brings the drinks for us.

Lebohang Selahle: Usually that's what happens. The guys approach us, they buy us drinks and then we chill together, but we don't go home with them.

Tumi: (SeSotho) - But afterwards, you do go with them?

Friends: No, never.

Mammedi: Not usually, but sometimes.

Tumi: (SeSotho) So when you go with them, do you sleep with them or what happens?

Mammedi: (SeSotho) With this other guy, we did nothing. Actually, I just go with them to their places and then with this other guy...

Palesa: Ok for nna, I actually never had sex with any guy that I meet at a party, or at a club or whatever (SeSotho). Guys we have sex with are those we are dating.

Tumi: (SeSotho) So when you have sex, do you use condoms?

Palesa: Most of the time.

Mammedi: (SeSotho) Me and my boyfriend, sometimes we don't use it. Why? Because it's kind of nice. I know its not safe, but sometimes in the situation...

Tumi: (SeSotho) Will you have condoms with you tonight?

Friends: (SeSotho) No. We don't carry them around with us. Because we're not intending to sleep around so we don't carry them.

Tumi: (SeSotho) When you carry your own condoms, do you feel like the guys will judge you?

Palesa: (SeSotho) Guys will think that you're a slut because obviously you wanted to have sex that night. So you carry condoms to be safe, so that is what I am scared of.

Lebohang: Yes I think so. They think you are promiscuous and that you sleep around.

Shalom: Vele I lost my virginity whilst I was in high school mina and funny thing is all these thingy, messages were being thrown at me. No safe sex, no, no safe sex wasn't there I think it was beware of STI's beware of teenage pregnancy, that was the very first thing that I got to know.

Busi: Did you manage to ukulantuka ukuresist ipeer pressure le yalantombazana yona eyayiyi leader yesex (isiXhosa). Did you manage to resist the peer pressure from that girl who was the leader of sex in your group?

Shalom: I didn't manage to resist that is why I lost it ngisese High School.

Busi: Iya because we seem to ignoring ilantuka apha, I power ye peer pressure. Abantwana abaninzi they can't resist ilentuka. You are with the peers influencing each other apha. Umama usemsebenzini uphuma ngo6 ekuseni uya emsebenzini ubuya ngo8 ebusuku the whole day akekho apha inbetween. Wena usesikolweni nabanye abantwana uselokshini nabanye abantwana you're discussing staff (isiXhosa). The mother starts at work at 6am and finishes at 8pm. She is not at home the whole day. The child is at school discussing things with other children. Then they come home and discuss stuff.

Fanie de Villiers: I understand what you're saying. A lot of people who make lot of people who make the wrong choices in their lives when they...

Busi: Because they want to be cool.

Fanie: Yes, you want to be cool you want fit in. So in other words if I want to go and study I study in Gauteng, I want to study in Stellenbosch so now we move to Stellenbosch and far away from my parents and nobody can check what I'm doing. And that gives me a safer environment to do whatever I want to do.

Pholokgolo: (SeSotho) I think we should listen to Busi's point that most of our work from 6am to 8pm. And then we finish school at 1 and then what do we do from 1....

Fanie: We have sex...

Pholokgolo: So those are some of the things that contribute to people having sex early but also moving away from home also contributes to this. It's a problem, I'm one of them.

Shalom: I mean you can tell with those girls that they are away from home.

Luckyboy: Even worse once nje wasuka ekhaya emehlweni wabazali that is when uFanie njengokuba asho, uvele uzitshele nje ukuthi ok manje akusekho muntu ozongitshela ukuthi ngenze njani. Because as sibonile kwi insert I don't think ukuthi bahlala nabazali babo labantwana. Even if you are still leaving with your parents ukuya emapatini nasemaklabini ungakwenza but ukwenza to a certain level but once uphume ekhaya that is when you say ya yi freedom then ngingenzza noma yini engifuna ukuyenza and ugcina sowu fall kuma traps amaningi. Izinto lezi bowuzikhuluma una14 years ukuthi ngeke ze ngizenze ngineminyaka engaka uvele ukhohlwe ngazo udlule kuzo (isiZulu). It's worse once you move away from home. There are no parents to tell you what to do. As we saw in the insert, I don't think those girls live with their parents. Even if you live with your parents, you can still go to parties, but to a certain extent. Once you move out of home you have freedom. You can do anything you want and that is when you fall into traps. The things you said you would never do at age 14, you completely forget about them.

Shalom: It really worries me to hear young girls going out partying without condoms. In times of need icondom likhona uyazi ukuthi ulifakile ebhegini yakho (isiZulu). In times of need you need to know you have condom in your bag.

Busi: It's just like buckling up xa uzakuqhuba. It's not like xa ufaka isafety belt it's only because you want cause an accident or something (isiXhosa). It's just like buckling up when you are going to drive. You don't put on a safety belt because you want to cause an accident. In case something happens I'm safe.

Shalom: Akhe sithathe ikhefu sizobuya khona manje (isiZulu). We're taking a quick break and we will be back now.

Shalom: Siyanamukela futhi kuSiyayinqoba BeatIt! Namhlanje sihlaziya intsha nezocantsi. Akhe sibone ukuthi singalindela ini kwabesilisa abasebancane (isiZulu). Welcome back to Siyayinqoba Beat It! Today we're discussing young people and sex. Let's see what we can expect from young men.

Tumi: (SeSotho) Today we're in Newtown talking to guys about condom use.

Peter Molefe: (SeSotho) we're going out tonight, we're going to have fun. Me, Kenny, it's going to be good.

Tumi: (SeSotho) when you go out and meet people, do you sleep with the girls you meet?

Peter: (SeSotho) you can meet with someone for conversation or for the sake of other stuff. But in actual fact, it's your decision whether or not to sleep with them in the end.

Tumi: (SeSotho) who's responsibility is it to carry condoms?

Peterson Nhlapo: (SeSotho) Many times at a club we are drinking, and you tend to just go with the flow. Sometimes it's a guy's responsibility, sometimes its girl's responsibility. But it's just that condoms are not a concern to people.

Peter: (SeSotho) It's my responsibility and the lady's responsibility to have a condom.

Kenneth Phala: (SeSotho) Sometimes you're not going out with the intention of picking up a girl. You're just chilling with your boys, and you have no condom on you. Then you meet a nice girl, you start talking and one thing leads to another. What if something leads to something and you think that's the last chance. So what are you to do? Are you going to say I'm going home quickly to get something. Chances are you're going to have sex without a condom.

Tumi: (SeSotho) If a girl has a condom with her, what would you think of her?

Peterson: (SeSotho) If a guy sees a girl with a condom you're thinking if it wasn't me it could have been someone else. Meaning she came with a purpose. I wish we shouldn't look at it that way, but we do.

Peter: (SeSotho) If a woman says she has a condom, it's like he said if it wasn't me it could have been someone else. Then you ask yourself, after she is done with me, how many other people is she going to show a condom to?

Tumi: (SeSotho) -So you don't see it as it's her trying to protect herself?

Peterson: Nine out of ten...no.

Tumi: (SeSotho) Have you personally ever been in situations when you don't have a condom and you know, you've come that far so you just have sex anyway?

Peterson: (SeSotho) Ha! Fethu nna that's the everyday story. That's the everyday story. That happens every time.

Busi: The boys okanye the guys they also brought it up into yokuba xa intombazana beyibona iphethe icondom nabo into efikayo engqondweni yabo kuqala ibeyeyokuba kum nakubanina apho ezakuhamba eflasha le condom around. Which is kengoku okokuqala ayenzeki kumadoda, xa indoda iphethe icondom asibathathi ngokuba they're sleeping around. Thina sibathatha ngokuba they're protecting themselves they're trying to also protect nathi uyayi understander. Bona kutheni bezakuyithatha ngohlobo olurongo xa umntu obhinqileyo ephethe icondom it's because ufuna ukulala around (isiXhosa). The guys said that if they see a girl carrying a condom she is loose. However when men carry condoms we don't say they are sleeping around. W e say they are protecting themselves and their partners. Why is it when a woman carries a condom, she is called promiscuous.

Pholokgolo: (SeSotho) Firstly we should look at the message of condom use and reduction of multiple partners.

Victor: I think I would agree with Pholo that we need to, there has to be some behavioral change but we need to put out balanced information so we can't be strong on one particular aspect of the message and saying abstain and then we're not giving the balanced message in terms of delay on set condomise.

Busi: Wena Victor had I been given that chance okanye had umntana wam given me that chance to talk to him about isex I'm sure I would have done an excellent job kuleyo indima. Because mna esinye sezizathu sokufuna ukuthetha naye  about these things I realized intoyokuba okokuqala I wasn't supposed to start having sex at 15 but it was already late. I realized intoyokuba I wasn't suppose to have had him when I was 20 but it was already late. I realized intoyokuba ba ndandi kwi different situation ngendingazange ndibe HIV positive and I don't want that all the 3 things that I've just mentioned intoyokuba zenzeke kuye. Enze isex emncimnci abe nomntana esemncimnci on top of everything else abe neHIV. So I'm sure I would have done an excellent job. Naye wayengayazi intoyokuba it's my responsibility and my right of course intoyokuba ndithethe naye about these things (isiXhosa). Had my child given me the chance to talk to him about sex, I'm sure I would have done an excellent job. One of the reasons I want to talk to him about sex is because I realized I wasn't supposed to start having sex at 15, but it was too late. I realized that had I been in a different situation I may not have contracted HIV. I don't want all those things to happen to him. Have sex at a young age, be a parent at a young age and contract HIV. He also didn't know that is was my responsibility and my right to talk to him about these things.

Victor: I think the Khomanani, Soul City they have the responsibility to make sure that the message gets out there. One or two billboards is not good enough is not spending money wisely. We need to make sure that the condom message be safe is everywhere. If you consider that 5,5 million people in South Africa are HIV positive we need to get the message out there.

Pholokgolo: (SeSotho) I think that one of our main problems is that...You find the organizations sitting with the lot of resources not being able to work together. In time you find the small little message going out that part, a small little message going out that part. If all the big organizations (SeSotho). It's important to work together to create and have one powerful message.

Shalom: Intselelo esibhekene nayo ukuhlangabezana nentloso karhulumeni ekunciphiseni izinga lokuthelelana ngegciwane, ukungena ngengxenye ukuzama ukwenza ukuthi abantu bashintshe izindlela zokuziphatha. Loku akugxilile kokushiwoywo ngoba vele siyakwazi kodwa kubantu nemizwa yabo kanye nezimo zempilo. Kumele sisebenze kakhulu ekuzivikeleni futhi sethembe ukuthi ikhambi lokuzivikela ukuthola isandulela ngculaza lizotholakala. Uma sigqoke lamabhengela sibonosa ukuthi sizigcina siphephile futhi silawula izimpilo zethu. Zivikele uvikele nabanye. Size sibonane ngeviki elizayo futhi nisale kahle emakhaya (isiZulu). The biggest challenge we face in meeting the national strategic plan's target of reducing new infections by half is persuading people to change their behavior. It is not about knowing the facts because as we have seen we do know these. It's about people's emotions and life circumstances. We need to do more about prevention and hopefully find better medical methods that will prevent HIV infections. These bangles show that we're keeping it safe and taking responsibility. Protect yourself. Protect others. Join us again next week. Goodbye.

Support Group: Bye!!