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Siyayinqoba Beat It! 2005 Episode 13 –

HIV in the SANDF

Our constitution states that discrimination on the basis of one’s gender, sexual orientation and any unfair discrimination is not acceptable and yet by not employing people living with HIV or AIDS, the South African National Defence Force continues to discriminate against people living with HIV. The SANDF is exempt from key legislation which is the basis of South Africa’s non-discriminatory policy on HIV/AIDS. The support group debated and questioned why the law allows this kind of discrimination to continue in the South African Defence Force.

Jason Wessenaar: Hello and welcome to the Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group. My name is Jason. In the Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group we are all living positively with HIV. Each week we get together to discuss issues that affect our lives with HIV; from leadership in the fight against HIV to dental health. Siyayinqoba is your guide to better living with HIV. If you’re living with HIV or have a partner, a family member or a friend living with HIV, this programme is for you. Our Constitution states that discrimination on the basis of one’s gender, sexual orientation and any unfair discrimination is not acceptable and yet by not employing people living with HIV or AIDS, the South African National Defence Force continues to discriminate against people living with HIV. The SANDF is exempt from key legislation which is the basis of South Africa’s non-discriminatory policy on HIV/AIDS. Although there has been some improvement, the SANDF has also for a long time, been through denial about the impact of AIDS in the defence force. To help us discuss this issue, we are joined by Lindy Heineken from the Centre for Military Studies at the University of Stellenbosch. Welcome Lindy. We also welcome Mpati but first the Siyayinqoba team met up with Tebogo who’s contesting his exclusion from the defence force. Let’s meet Tebogo.

How the SANDF excludes people living with HIV

Bloemfontein, Free State

Tebogo: {Sesotho} [I had to report to army headquarters on 3 January 2000. I went there and we started training until they tested us for HIV and they discovered I have HIV.]

Liesl Gerntholtz (AIDS Law Project): In this case, our client is fit and healthy, he’s currently not on antiretroviral medication, has been stopped by the SANDF from being an employee simply because of his HIV status. And this enquiry doesn’t involve a consideration of the actual state of health and whether they are actually able to do the job. All that is done is a HIV test that is conducted, is part of the pre-employment screening process and people who test positive are automatically prevented from joining the SANDF. We think that that constitutes unfair discrimination.

Tebogo: I passed their physical entry test and their interview. They said because I’m HIV positive they can’t deploy me internationally. They said I can look for employment elsewhere because they don’t need me.

General Pieter Oelofse (South African Military Health Service): Our current policy states that at entry into the military, we do a comprehensive health assessment and if the person has got any chronic debilitating disease at that point in time, that will impact negatively on their ability to be soldiers because we must always understand what we expect of a soldier to be doing, then that would exclude them from entering the national defence force. And obviously HIV/AIDS is such a disease and at this stage, it is part of our policy then to exclude people to enter in the defence force on that basis.

Tebogo: I still have my performance record and it’s still good. They also admitted that my performance is good, but they said there’s nothing they can do.

Liesl Gernthholtz: So clearly it wasn’t his state of health that prevented him from doing the job, in fact he probably can do the job, he could do the job and can still do the job. It was simply that he had HIV and they said: “Well, sorry that makes you unfit to be a soldier or a nurse, or a pastor”, you can’t even join the band if you have HIV and you want to be a member of the SANDF. And for me, the sad thing is that all the clients that I’ve worked with have a strong sense of patriotism, very few of them want to join the SANDF because they want a job. Many of them join because they have a strong desire to be part of the SANDF that they see as the new constitutionally mandated body to protect the public of South Africa. So they have a strong connection to that whole ideal.

Support group

Jason Wessenaar: In all sorts of professions we have people with HIV who are working and are doing their work very well, who are fit to do their work well and they are not disturbed from doing their work because of their HIV status. But why is it that we do not have or we can’t employ people living with HIV as soldiers.

Lindy Heineken (Centre for Military Studies, Stellenbosch): As you would have seen from that insert, the force doesn’t just discriminate people with HIV/AIDS, they also don’t employ people with chronic TB, with hepatitis, that have got cancer, that have got any heart defects, so there’s a whole range of issues. So you can be excluded from belonging to the defence force in any one of those occupations. I think the decisive factor here is that; one, we’re going to ideally be deploying those people in countries, exposing them to very hazardous circumstances that may be stressful to them, exposing them to a whole battery of vaccinations, there’s a whole range of issues that surrounds this specific aspect in terms of HIV/AIDS. And we know that it is not good to expose HIV people to stressful situations.

Anthony Fernandes: They say we’re not going to employ HIV positive people who come to the gate and ask for a job however there’s people in there who are already HIV positive, what happens to them, do they get? And it also worries me about people who later, by accident or as it happens, find out they are HIV positive, it’s the same as the gay thing, we’re not going to come out and say it because we might lose our jobs and our livelihood.

Lindy Heineken: Across the world, we are getting what we call segmentation of military employment where the actual military posts are getting less and less. So if you were a HIV positive person and we can’t deploy you and we can’t expose you to very cold and very hot conditions or give you the vaccination to be able to deploy you, we would put you in a support position. Now support posts are increasingly being outsourced, civilianised, so there’s less and less of those posts available to be able to accommodate HIV positive persons.

Prudence Mabele: {Sesotho} [Why do we deny people the right to be able to be what they aspire to be? People are not being given lighter work because you think it’s right but it’s not, because we can check CD4 counts and viral loads of people, to make sure that they are strong and fit enough to do their job properly.]

Vuyani Jacobs: It creates a lot of stigma within the army. There are people who have been deployed in Rwanda, who have been deployed in the DRC and they come back. When there’s another deployment, they are expected to apply again, they apply and then suddenly they get refused to go back there because they’ve got HIV. And now everyone in the army knows that if you have not been able to go into that thing, you now have HIV, so there’s that kind of discrimination within the army.

Anthony Fernandes: You’ve got to admit, for soldiers to be out there and do their thing, they need to be a little bit edgy and they need to be quite focused and mentally quite there. I just think there is no better candidate than somebody young, in their prime, just found out they’re HIV positive, who wants to make a difference and edge for life. Those are the people that need to be employed.

Jason Wessenaar: We talk more about the Defence Force and HIV after this break.

Jason Wessenaar: Welcome back to the Siyayinqoba Support Group, the programme for everyone infected and affected by HIV. The Siyayinqoba team visited number 1 Military Hospital where we met with Philisiwe and Andries, two soldiers living openly with HIV in the military.

How the SANDF cares for soldiers living with HIV

Tshwane, Gauteng

Private Andries Nhlengethwa: Ngithande kakhulu ukuthi ngibe ngomunye wababntu abavikela elilizwe lam, ngiwuthanda futhi umsebenzi njeng’ba ngiwuthanda na manje. Kuye kwenzeka lapha ngo-1998, sathunyelwa singamasoja, ngisese-Bloemfontein ngesosikhathi, sathunyelwa lapha e-Lesotho ukuthi siyolungisa isimo sakhona ebesingekho esimweni ukuthi bekukhona ukungezwana phakathi kohulumeni namasoja. So ke ngabona kusemqoka futhi Kubalulekile kumina ukuthi uma ngabe sengibuyela ekhaya e-South Africa e-Bloemfontein, ngifike ngenze i-VCT. So ngaathola ukuthi ngi-positive. Ngangi ngabonakali ukuthi ngi-HIV positive. {isiZulu} [I joined the Defence Force in 1997. I love the idea of being one of the people protecting my nation. I love my work. In 1998 when I was in Bloemfontein, we were sent to Lesotho to help them with their problems because there was a conflict between the government and the soldiers. I decided that when I come back to South Africa in Bloemfontein, I will go for VCT. I found out I’m HIV positive. I disclosed to two or three of my colleagues. At first they didn’t believe me because physically I don’t look like someone who’s HIV positive.]

Philisiwe Ntshangase: Igama lam ngingu-Philisiwe Ntshangase, ngihlala e-Soweto, ngisebenza e-1 Military Hospital as a patient advocacy, i-GIPA, Greater Involvement of People living with AIDS in the military. Ngo1998 ngiye ngaqala ngigula ngabane-PCP pneumonia. Banginekeza ama-prophylaxis, udokotela wam wangi-advise wathi lokhu was not enough because i-CD4 yam beyehla and nam bengifila weak kakhulu, nginasakhoni ukuza emsebenzini… ngiqale i-programme yama-ARVs. {isiZulu} [My name is Philisiwe Ntshangase and I stay in Soweto. I work at 1 Military Hospital in patient advocacy with GIPA, Greater Involvement of People living with AIDS, within the military. In 1998 I started getting very ill and I had PCP pneumonia. I was given prophylaxis but my doctor said that wasn’t enough, because my CD4 count was getting lower and I was feeling very weak. I couldn’t come to work everyday so he advised me to start with the programme of ARVs.]

General Pieter Oelofse (South African Military Health Service): If we look at Project Phidisa, it is a scientific research project that we’ve embarked on in collaboration with the United States Defence Force as well as the National Institutes of Health. And being a research project, we are focusing on certain issues about antiretroviral medicine and to give us some answers on what would be, for example, the best combination of antiretroviral medicine to give to military personnel.

Private Andries Nhlengethwa: Into ebalulekile ungakhohlwa ukuthetha ama-ARVs akho. {isiZulu} [Most importantly please don’t forget to take your ARVs.] It’s about your life and your support, it’s important.

Philisiwe Ntshangase: Besengikhohliwe. Yi-AZT le ngizoyiphuza, yi-Efivarenz le, yi-3TC le. Ngiwaphuza ekuseni nantambhambha, nges’khathi esifanayo. Ngo-1998 ngaqala ngazithengela ama-ARVs nge-R800 sometimes nge-R1 400 and it was very so ngagcina sengikwi-drug holiday, leyonto ibengenza ukuthi ngibene-resistance because I’m from one regimen to another regimen but today I would like to thank my government and the Defence Force for providing because manje wonke ama-ARVs engiwaphuzayo angiwakhokheli ngiwathola free of charge from i-Phidisa Project. {isiZulu} [Thanks, I almost forgot. This is AZT, Efavirenz and 3TC and I have to take them. I take them in the morning and at night, at the same time. In 1998 I started on ARVs and I had to buy them for R800 to R1 400. So I ended up taking drug holidays and that made me develop resistance. I get all my ARVs for free from the Phidisa Project.]

Private Andries Nhlengethwa: i-Phidisa ngiyithandile ngoba yona iza nomqondo wokuthi manje kufanele ukuthi kunikezwe ama-ARVs kubantu labo abakulungele ukuthi bawathole ama-ARVs. Kodwa nje akusiwona ama-ARVs kuphela esikhuluma ngawo e-Phidisa nengikuthandayo. Kutshekhwa zonke izifo ezingaphakathi egazini lomuntu noma ezikuphethe, nami ke eyam impilo kufanele ngiyi prolonge by eating healthy and I must make my life better by making sure that whatever I eat, it’s healthy and exercising is one of the things that engenza ukuthi ngibe-strong. {isiZulu} [I love the Phidisa Project because it provides ARVs for people who qualify to get ARVs. The Phidisa Project doesn’t only focus on ARVs, they also check for many other viruses that are inside a person’s body. I have to prolong my life by eating healthy and I must make my life better by making sure that whatever I eat is healthy. Exercise is one of the things that make me strong.]

Philisiwe Ntshangase: I love my job and I proved that I can do it as a woman, and I’m proving that I can do it being HIV positive and live within the organisation called the Military.

Support group

Jason Wessenaar: Linda, people like Philisiwe and Andries, it seems to me that they would be excluded from the deployment because of their HIV status and according to the policy of the Defence Force, but my question is around the issues of promotion. Are they legible for promotion within the Defence Force in terms of their ranks?

Lindy Heineken (Centre for Military Studies, Stellenbosch): In terms of deployment, obviously they will not be deployed because it’s a union recommendation that people who are HIV positive are not deployed. In terms of promotion, it should have absolutely no impact. For promotion, you have to attend your necessary military courses, if you qualify in your courses and you can do the job, there’s absolutely no discrimination on that specific level.

Vuyani Jacobs: Now, it brings me to SANDF which has an exclusion to people that test for HIV, not that have full-blown AIDS. With HIV you have quite a life span especially when you have been counselled and you can treat your opportunistic infections.

Lindy Heineken: I think the perspective from the Defence Force is that we need a group of healthy people to come into the Defence Force from a base from which to work for and then to control it by means of education and prevention as best as we possibly could.

Anthony Fernandes: I find that whole HIV healthy thing quite offensive because for somebody who’s HIV positive, like me, I don’t even consider for a second that I’m unhealthy or even sick, I just know that I’ve got a manageable virus and I’m managing it extremely well.

Lihle Dlamini: e-South Africa sine-constitution which also has i-Employment Equity Act which clearly states akekho umuntu ofanele acaswe on the grounds of their HIV status and akekho umqashi onelungelo lokuthi apre-teste umqashwa wakhe before amqashe. Yini eyenza i-SANDF yona ibenaleyo-exclusive right ekutheni inga-breach leyo act ekhona kwi-constitution yethu? {isiZulu} [In the South African Constitution and the Employment Equity Act, it states clearly that nobody may be discriminated against based on their HIV status. And no employer is allowed to test any employee before they are hired. Why does the SANDF have an exclusive right to breach the act and the Constitution?]

Lindy Heineken: When we come to the issue of HIV/AIDS, they will have to justify in the court that it is fair and reasonable to discriminate against people with HIV because of the following factors: because it limits their operational efficiency, because it may undermine discipline and we do see that already, it may undermine morale in the Defence Force and it will have to substantiate each one of those arguments.

Vuyani Jacobs: Would you, as an academic, really recommend this policy to continue for a long time or do you think we should have a national discussion around it?

Lindy Heineken: I take myself as an academic, I think I’m probably the only one who’s really published in this specific area, on the impact of this disease is having on armed forces and the military in this country, that is shocking. I mean the Defence Force is a very important organisation, the Defence Force should be pressurised to be part of discussions like this because it could only contribute to the society at large and the Defence Force have a lot to offer in terms of what they know about this disease. And I feel that they’ve got a national obligation to do that and it is not just about testing, it is about having access to information that can help us manage this disease.

Jason Wessenaar: We talk more about discrimination and the SANDF after the break. Don’t go away.

Jason Wessenaar: Welcome back to Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group, the programme for everyone infected and affected by HIV. We are talking about the SANDF’s policy on HIV/AIDS.

Nompakamo Kadeni: Abona bantu aba-HIV ngabona banengqondo kakhulu ukogqitha abanye abantu ngoba bayayazi eyona nto ekufanele bayenza. Naphaya emajonini, if ii-trainings bazifumene eze-HIV, bangakhuseleka ngoluphi na uhlobo. Lonto leyo ibonisa into yoba ilizwe lethu alikhuselekanga, alikazukhuseleka xa kanti abantu aba-HIV abanakuzifumana izithuba ezezabo, bazifile be-free okwabo imisebenzini. {isiXhosa} [People with HIV are more alert than those without because they know what to do with their health. If you have training on HIV, they’ll know about their CD4 counts and they’ll know how to access help if they need it. This shows that our country is not free and won’t be free if HIV positive people are denied the opportunity to do what they want.]

Lihle Dlamini: How often do you test people for HIV because kungenzeka ukuthi umntu angene kei-Defence Force e-negative then as time goes on abe-positive ngokuthi atholwe yi-HIV infection from someone else. [because it may happen that people get into the Defence Force when they are negative and as time goes on, they may get infected] with HIV. What things do you have in place to make sure that those people who are negative remain negative? {isiZulu}

Lindy Heineken: Testing is voluntary, it’s not compulsory even for external deployments. If you refuse to get tested then obviously you don’t get deployed but the Defence Force does not force you to be tested. If there is a health assessment which is done throughout the Defence Force, I believe there’s going to be one next year, you are not compelled to take that test. However, what would happen is that your medical classification will change.

Vuyani Jacobs: When there’s an announcement that there’s going to be deployments, so you go through the whole process within the military. A lot of people have ambitions because I know a few friends from the military, they will know that within the nine months they’re going to be in the DRC, within a month they will buy that and that. Now the process of testing and they get rejected in that process puts a lot of frustrations in the situation and that’s what I’m concerned about.

Lindy Heineken: Yes, I agree with you, I mean any kind of discriminatory practice has an impact on an organisation no matter what it has, it creates a tremendous amount of tension whether it’s women in combat or homosexualities or discriminating because I can’t go on a mission because I do not fit the medical classification. And that is why it is so important that HIV positive people come out, talk about it, because the more people who talk about it, the more people are tested, the more it takes away discrimination.

Vuyani Jacobs: I think the Phidisa Project is a nice one because it actually involves the families of the soldiers because I’ve seen some of my friends who’s girlfriends or wives are HIV positive, they need ARVs so they go through there. So I think it’s quite a nice one, it’s very much designed in that way to help other people, I like it.

Jason Wessenaar: What is the Defence Force doing to address issues of discrimination and stigma within the Defence Force?

Lindy Heineken: The only discriminatory practices at this stage is really the HIV testing policy for recruits which will invariably be left to the court but as I said, there are strong arguments on both sides and for deployments. It has been debated at every single level, every unit discusses it. People are being encouraged to come forward to be tested, if you’re being tested, we’ve got programmes like Phidisa.

Jason Wessenaar: Thanks to Lindy, Mpaki, the support group and the viewers at home. Today we remember our rights as people living with HIV. We are part of the community and should not be discriminated against. We don’t accept discrimination against people living with HIV. If it happens in the Defence Force it will happen in other places. This reminds us that we have to fight for our rights. We hope for the day when everyone has been trained and plays an important role in the South African Defence Force and in the process of maintaining peace on our continent. We really appreciate your letters so keep them rolling in. I have a letter here from SD and it reads thus:

The programme gives us hope and it motivates us (people living with the virus) because our counselling is not good. I want to open a support group so that I can teach other people on how to beat HIV because if you sit alone, you think about a lot of things and you have a lot of problems. Please help us to help other people to get the right help.

So what I want to say to you SD is that help is coming your way. Please keep your letters rolling in and thank you. We hope that you enjoyed the show and that you’re feeling the Siyayinqoba Spirit, that together we can Beat It! Join us again next week in the Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group. Till then stay healthy and be blessed.

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