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Siyayinqoba Beat It! 2004 Episode 9 – Social Grants

The Siyayinqoba Beat It! Team investigated the role social grants play in the response to the HIV epidemic. The team met with Thelile in Tugela, KwaZulu Natal who had recently accessed social grants. Thelile was using the grants to help take care of her siblings after her parents had passed away from AIDS. The social grant system was then discussed further with in house guest Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga from the Department of Social Development.

Jason Wessenaar: Sanibonani, [Hello,] Jason is my name and I welcome you to the Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group. Siyayinqoba means we can Beat It. Every week I get together with other people living with HIV to discuss issues that affect our lives with HIV. Uma uphila negciwane le-HIV {IsiZulu} [If you are living with the virus] or have a partner, a family member or a friend who is HIV positive, Siyayinqoba is for you. This week we are talking about HIV and social grants. This week the Siyayinqoba Team was in Kwazulu Natal and saw the difference a social grant has made to a young person’s life who was left to look after her small brothers and sisters after her parents had died.

How Social Grants can help us

Tugela Ferry, KwaZulu Natal

Thelile Dlame: Igama lami ngingu-Thelile wakwaDlame. Kwagula ubaba, walimala ngo-1998. Kwaphinda kwalimamala umama naye loko egula njalo walimala ngo-April 2003. Kwakunzima kakhulu ngoba yimina ongasafundi futhi yimina omdala. Futhi zonke iingane ziyafunda. Kwethu sibawu-5 nengane yam encane. Bengithi besingahlupheki, besingasweli kangako kodwa manje hayi kunzima impela nje. Na futhi neengane zingaphantsi kwami zincane futhi zonke ziyafunda, futhi sifuna ukudla, zifuna ukugqoka, zifuna yonke into nje ngezinye iingane. Ayikho nje impilo ebesiyiphila, besingaphili lutho nje. {isiZulu} [My name is Thelile Dlame. My father was sick and he died in 1998. And my mother was always sick and she passed away, in April 2003. I was at school, but I decided to leave since I’m the eldest. All the children are at school and I am looking after them. We are five children, including my child. We used to have everything, but the way we are living is very hard. The children I’m looking after are still very young, still at school. They want food, clothes, like other children. The way we have been living is not nice.]

Nonhlanhla Magubane (Social Worker): We visited the family and we’ve discovered that there’s nothing. They don’t even have mieliemeel; {IsiZulu} [maize meal;] they have nothing to eat at all.

Thelile Dlame: Kang’ba nezihlobo nje uma sowuhlupheka abantu bayaqhalala nje. Abenzi lutho ngoba bathi abanalutho. Ngaphandle kwaba kwaMkhize, estolo laphaya ezantsi. Efane esinika imphuphu kuphela naye. Besibonga lokho naye. {IsiZulu} [If you are poor, even the family stays away. They do nothing, because they say they have nothing; except for the shopkeeper, Mkhize, down there. He gives us maize meal. That’s all. So we just say thanks for that.]

Nonhlanhla Magubane: We call her intandane, that’s the child without parents, but in terms of the act, she does no longer fall under the child-headed families, but the female-headed families, because she is twenty two years old, so now she’s in the process of applying for the grant. So as a temporary measure we’re going to issue some social relief, which she will use to buy some food. Thereafter the social worker will have to compile a preliminary report that she used to take her to court and place the children to her as a place of safety. After fourteen days, they’ll have to go back to court as well where the children will be put under her care as a foster care parent.

Another social worker: Bese masinyane usohlalonhle ahambe nawe aye enkantolo kusheshiseleke, kuphume i-court order. Le court order uzohamba nayo usoya khona espeshenini la kuthiwa khona kukwa-Social Security, sowuhamba ke uyogingqa ke. Ubhalise ke usowukwazi ukuthi abantwana bakini, iphume ke i-Foster Care Grant. Sekutsho ukuthi le-grant yeyona eyoqupheka njalo unomphelo, abantwana bakokweni baze baqede is’kolo uma bezimisele. {IsiZulu} [The social worker will take you to court to get a court order. You’ll take the court order to Social Security who will issue the Foster Care Grant. You’ll receive this grant until the children have finished school.]

Thelile Dlame: Ngiyacabanga ukuthi sizoba-right kakhulu ngempela futhi ngiyajabula kakhulu njendlela esimangaliso ngoba bengingakuphuphi oku kwenzeka namhlanje. {isiZulu} [I think it’s going to be okay, because I didn’t even dream of what’s happening today.]

Support Group

Busisiwe Maqungo: I think we should acknowledge what the Department of Social Development is doing, babanika i-chance abantwana abazi-caregivers into yoba at least bangena-burden bathi besandoshiywa ngabazali kanti umntwana ujongene noba ngumzali klwabantwana bakowabo. {IsiXhosa} [because they give children, who are caregivers, a chance not to have the burden. After their parents’ death, they mourn and at the same time they have to become parents to their siblings.]

Jason Wessenaar: What conditions must we meet to obtain a social grant?

Bonile Peter: In order for a person to qualify for a Disability Grant, you have to be on stage four. How many of us would like to reach that stage?

Support Group member: No-one wants to reach that stage.

Busisiwe Maqungo: And even if you reach that stage, how are you going to do all these things: go to the police station, go there, go there. You’re very sick, you’re bed-ridden, and that’s how they want you to be to get the social grant. How are you going to do all those things? Eigh.

Lihle Dlamini: And many people die without having got access to that grant. It takes you sometimes more than three months to get it. For instance, I had TB. To get a letter from the doctor saying I have TB, and a letter from the hospital where I took my HIV test to say I’m positive. And I had to go there with my ID and I was very sick, I couldn’t even sit.

Vuyani Jacobs: Now, do you still have the grant.

Lihle Dlamini: Mm mm.

Vuyani Jacobs: Because it was taken away?

Lihle Dlamini: No, I decided to go and stop the grant because I was very sick, and I really needed a means of income. And now there is a means of income, so I should make space for other people in order for them to access the grant, do you understand?

Jason Wessenaar: But what is the process of stopping, was it as long as the process of starting?

Lihle Dlamini: No, never, never.

Jason Wessenaar: If you’re getting a Disability Grant, what happens if your health improves?

Vuyani Jacobs: I’ve heard from some of the support group discussions that people are hesitant to start on ARVs, because being on ARVs will mean your CD4 count will go beyond 200, within a six months your CD4 count will be, like, wow, you see. You’re better, you no longer have any opportunistic infections, and there comes the reviewing of your grant and so forth, and you’re still unemployed, you still have your wife, you still have your kids, you still in the same circumstance.

Prudence Mabele: I got my Disability Grant after a year. After my cell count was no longer 200, it was higher. And I also exhausted it. When it was that time for renewal, I said to the doctor who was seeing me at that time: “I think I’m fine, and I’m fit.” They used to give you a card with your ID, a Disability Grant card, so I used to keep that card to go to “You uGogo”, because for me that money is for uGogo [a granny]. So, I was just looking forward to just getting well quickly so I can just not be part of that money, you understand?

Jason Wessenaar: We are going to a break. Stay tuned…

Jason Wessenaar: Welcome back to Siyayinqoba Support Group. We are talking about Social Grants and HIV. The Department of Social Development has been making huge strides towards making grants available to those who have no income to support themselves. The Siyayinqoba Team was in Paarl where Joyce Kepe was applying for a grant. We followed her through the process.

Getting a Social Grant

Mbekweni, Paarl

Joyce Kepe: Mna ndinguJoyce Kepe, ndihlala aph’eThembane. Lo nguCaroline Kepe. Ewe kufuneka zonke ziyobekwa i-stamp pha e-Police station. Mna ndi-HIV positive noCaroline ke u-HIV positive. Ndifuna uyokumenzela imali for ugula kwakhe. {IsiZulu} [I am Joyce Kepe. I live here in Thembane. This is Caroline Kepe. All these things must be taken to the police station to be stamped. I am HIV positive and Caroline is HIV positive too. I want to get money and the grant for her illness.]

Joyce Kepe: Morning.

Social Development Department worker: I see you are here for a Care and Dependency Grant.

Steven Frolicks (Department of Social Development): The reason why the Care Dependent Grant is actually being paid is because the mother needs to look after the child, and she therefore can’t go and have an income and so this is why the grant especially makes provision, and this is most probably the reason why it’s more than the Child Support Grant. Basically, all the documentation that she needs: we’re talking about the ID, it’s got to be a bar-coded ID, and the birth certificate of the child, which has to be a birth certificate issued by the Department of Health affairs. And it says here, she needs parental care daily for her needs. So, according to the criteria here, she would qualify.

Social Development Department Worker: Okay I’m going to ask you to sign some of the documents for me.

Steven Frolicks: So all her relevant documentation is now being assessed, so we’re talking about a second interview that the person is now having, just to check whether the documentation she supplied is indeed correct, whether all the fingerprint, the signatures are on the right places.

Another worker: Basically, what’s on the receipt is the client’s ID number, her name, surname, and the type of grant which she applied for. The receipt’s got a number on it and we keep a copy of that just to make sure that the person really applied from our office. My signatures on the receipt indicate that the person applied by me. If there’s a delay in the application, the person can come to our office, show us the receipt and say: “Look I applied on such a date and I need to know how far my application is.”

Steven Frolicks: She wants her money to be paid out here in Mbekweni, at the pay point, there’s a pay point in the Mbekweni Hall; so grants will be paid out in the old pay point system in the Mbekweni Hall. The Care Dependency Grant is R700 per month.

Joyce Kepe: It is R1400.00. Yho sade sabuya mntwana wam. Yiza sihlale apha. Uyabona sisi ndiyavuya ngoku ngoba imali yakho yogula ndiyifumene. Ngoku umama wakho uzakuthengela amayeza ekufuneka uwatyile. Ndiyavuya kakhulu because ngoku ndizawukwazi ukusa eTygerberg. Ndizobanayo imali ye-transport. And ndogqiba ndizobanayo imali yothenga amayeza ekufuneka uwafumene neepilisi. Naxa ugulayo ndizakusa kwagqirha. And ndikuthengele nokutya oku-right okubhek’egazini and ndikuthengele neempahl’ezishushu ngoba kusebusika ngoku, uyawugula, akufanelanga ugodole. Ndibhatale nemali yakho yoya es’kolweni. {IsiZulu} [Oh, we’re back my child. Ja, my sister, I’m so happy now that we’ve got the money for your illness. Now your mother will buy some medicines that you are supposed to use. I’m very happy, because I can take you to Tygerberg. I have money for transport. After that I can buy some medicines and tablets for you. If you’re sick, I can take you to the doctor. And I can buy you the right food. I can buy you the right clothes for winter; you shouldn’t be cold. I can also pay your school fees.]

Support group

Jason Wessenaar: How effective is the Department of Social Development in getting grants to people?

Prudence Mabele: Kune-service bayibiza ukuthi yi-Bash. Ngiyibiza kanje because kubakhona i-social worker, kubekhona iphoyisa, kubekhona u-doctor, bonke basebenzisana nges’khathi esiyi-1 ne-community member. Bamsize umntu. Nalaba bangakwazi ukubhala, umfilise le-form, iye nge-line and bayahlala lababantu, abathi is’khathi wu-4, so ama-suitcase… bayahlala bakusize. Banokuvala nango-7 ntambhambha. And ababhatalwa for lawo ma-long hours. So sifanele si-acknowledge nezozinto bazame ukuzi-improve. Nabo bayenza njengenento aba-pay back kwama-community abo, i-service niya-understand kanjani? {IsiZulu} [There’s a service called ‘Bash’. I call it that because there’s a social worker, police and a doctor. They all work with the community member at the same time. They help people. Those who can’t write are helped to fill in forms, line by line. They don’t rush to go home and they don’t complain about time. They stay and help until late, not rushing to go home. These people don’t even get paid for those long hours. We should acknowledge the improvements they make. They also do it to give back to their communities. It’s a service, you understand what I mean?]

Vuyani Jacobs: Sisi, mna ndihlala e-Aberdeen, Ayikho i-Social Welfare office pha; {IsiXhosa} [Sister, I stay in Aberdeen. There is no Social Welfare office;] it comes once after three months. It makes an exciting environment where you can see that there’s an involvement of communities. But coming to rural areas where this things are not known much in cases, then you find the Social Services offices have been closed. There are no more in Aberdeen, for instance… a small town where there’s a lot of HIV. When they come for a day and they spend like the whole queue. You know only when you are there that: I need that, I need that, I need that. By the time you’ve finished looking for those things you need, they’re gone. You have to wait for another three months.

Jason Wessenaar: What are the consequences of widespread poverty and limited Social Grants for the HIV/AIDS epidemic?

Lihle Dlamini: The Department of Social Development is not advertising their services as they should, because people don’t know what services are there for them. Take for instance the girl who was on the news about a month ago. She wanted to contract HIV/AIDS as much as possible so that she could get the Disability Grant. Uyabona? And lento yayingicasukisa… Abantu bafuna imali, bafuna indlela yokuziphilisa ngayo and if ebazi ukuthi … ebezokwazi ukuthi aye khona…kuze abantu bazi ukuthi … {IsZulu} [You see, that makes me really angry and it happens. People want money they want a way to help themselves survive. And if she was aware that she could get other assistance other than the Disability Grant, she could have gone there. I think the department should advertise their services as much as possible, so that people may know what’s out there for them.]

Vuyani Jacobs: Uthi ebefuna uthola ingculaza? {IsiXhosa} [Are you saying she got herself infected with HIV?]

Lihle Dlamini: Hm.

Vuyani Jacobs: I really want you to tell me this thing: that people get HIV to access the Disability Grant?

Lihle Dlamini: Didn’t you see on TV?

Jason Wessenaar: It happens in Soweto in some of the VCT sites. When people test negative they get upset.

Lihle Dlamini: They get upset.

Jason Wessenaar: Because they want to get the grant.

Lihle Dlamini: There’s this girl who was sleeping with everyone.

Vuyani and Lihle Vuyani Jacobs: Don’t they want my HIV? I can give it to them.

John Vollenhoven: Ek het gesien, laat die social services nogal by onse fabrieke om gekom en al die vrou mense bymekaar geroep het. Jy kry mos vir jou kind R160 en jy werk: dit was gesny gewees, hulle het dit gesny, want jy werk al maar jy kry nog altyd die R160 vir jou vrou. Hulle is besig om vir mense meer met empowerment; laat mense meer op hulle self afhang.Hulle is besig om daardie kant toe te bewig dis waarom mense vandag so swaar kry om ’n grant te kry. {Afrikaans} [I saw how Social Services came to our factories and called all the women together. If you were getting the R160 for your child and you were working, it was cut, because you were earning money. They are busy empowering people to support themselves. That’s why people are struggling to get a grant.]

Jason Wessenaar: So what you’re saying is that the Social Development is doing something to cap the abuse. But I think at the same time, we shouldn’t really abuse it because other people will suffer, because if this continues the other people who come behind are going to suffer, and they’re not going to get access to those grants because we’re abusing them.

Busisiwe Maqungo: I think the only solution is the Basic Income Grant . People won’t have to fall pregnant, people won’t wish to contract HIV wonke umntu oselungelweni loba ayifumane i-BIG funeka ayifumane automatically. [if everyone entitled to the Basic Income Grant should get it automatically.] I mean ingathi mna kum izosolveka. [that is the solution.] If that thing is not done it is still going to put a burden over the shoulder of the government because, I go get pregnant, I might get HIV during the process, I don’t even bother to test, later I find out that the baby is positive. The person who is going to look after the baby is going to be given the R700, the R700 that was supposed to be given to the person before the person gets pregnant.

Jason Wessenaar: Stay with us because after the break we’re going to talk to Dr Connie Kganakga, the Chief Director of Social Development.

Jason Wessenaar: Welcome back to the Siyayinqoba Support Group, with us is Dr Connie Kganakga, Chief Director of HIV/AIDS in the Department of Social Development. She’s here to answer our questions about social grants. Dr Connie, please tell us about the different types of grants that are available and how much each one is.

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga (Department of Social Development): The Department of Social Development has about five grants that I could say they are related to HIV and AIDS. But however there are other grants such as the Old Age Pension grant and others as you would know.

Busisiwe Maqungo: The process is a very long thing. I know you’re not just doing it just for the fun of it; you have to do it to prevent abuse, but ndine-picture nje yalamntwana and uVuyani mentioned into yoba la ndawo uyayazi, yeyona ndawo lena umntu avele afrusteytheke wocingangayo, zonke ezizinto. {IsiXhosa} [but,I still have the image of that child and Vuyani mentioned one of those places where people get frustrated.]

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: Let me talk about the other grant that can relieve some of the problems that you are talking about. There is also what we call the Social Relief Fund, and that Social Relief Fund is meant to deal with the problems while somebody is still waiting to process grants, because it takes quite a while to process the grant because of the problems that you have been talking about. We have to make sure that everybody who gets a grant is the right person to get the grant. And therefore we have to eliminate those people who should not get the grants and in doing so, unfortunately, the process has got to take long so that this money that has been set aside benefits those people who should get it. And hence then we need somebody to have an ID document which currently, we are aware that we have got problems with children or adults who don’t even have identity documents. And the Department of Social Development is doing something about it, to make sure that they do something to facilitate those processes.

Lihle Dlamini: The Social Relief Grant you have to pay back, when you actually get your money.

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: No, you don’t have to pay it back.

Jason Wessenaar: Is it a stipulated amount of money, or does it depend on the situation?

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: There will be a means test, and then it will be stipulated depending on what the needs are.

Jason Wessenaar: Please explain to us what the means test is.

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: The means test is an assessment of the financial status of the family. So for example, if there is no-one working in the home and therefore they really are legible to get the social relief.

Jason Wessenaar: What is a criteria for someone who is HIV positive to get a Disability Grant?

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: Let me first say that the department does not give grants on the HIV/AIDS status. Grants are given on disability status. That is the first point that we need to understand. And hence, the issue of the CD4 cell count should be understood within the context of disability. For anybody to get a Disability Grant they must be SA citizens, they must have an ID document, they must have gone to a medical doctor who have assessed them to be disabled. The CD4 cell count is the criteria that is actually used at least to be able to say: firstly the CD4 cell count must be below 200, but that does not say that because your CD4 cell count is 200, even if you are strong like me and walking out and about, then you can get a Disability Grant. Besides the CD4 cell count, you must be disabled. You must be assessed to be disabled.

Jason Wessenaar: Does the department actually go and say that after such and such a time we’re stopping; you’re not getting a grant anymore?

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: With regards to disability?

Jason Wessenaar: Ja, for people who are HIV positive.

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: The Disability Grant is reviewed every six months. If you are fine and not working, then what should happen is for the social worker to go and do a means test, and then you can go to the social relief fund.

Jason Wessenaar: For how long?

Dr Nalega Constance Kganakga: It will keep on being reviewed, for another six months.

Jason Wessenaar: Diteboho ho Dr Kganakga le ho Siyayinqoba Support Group. {SeSotho} [Thanks to Dr Kganakga and the Siyayinqoba Support Group.]

Jason Wessenaar: Things we should remember:

You only qualify for a disability grant if you are disabled, not on grounds of your HIV status.
There are various grants available, including:

- The Care Dependency Grant
- The Disability Grant
- The Foster Care Grant
- The Social Relief Grant

Consult your nearest Department of Social Development office for advice on which grant you may qualify for.

We hope that you have enjoyed the show and have learnt something that can help you live positively with HIV. If you have any questions for any member of our Support Group or for Dr Nombulelo, our resident doctor, please contact us on the numbers on your screen right now. Thank you for being with us today. Ho fihlela bekeng e tlang {SeSotho} [Join us again next week] in the Siyayinqoba Support Group. Stay healthy, stay positive.