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Siyayinqoba Beat It! 2004 Episode 12 –

Positive living beats HIV

In this episode we followed Anthony Fernandes and Busisiwe Maqungo, two support group members, to a fresh produce store where they bought all the essential food types for a healthy balanced diet. Dr Nombulelo Madala joined the support group to discuss the important food types and why an HIV positive person needs a balanced diet. ‘Uncle’ John Vollenhoven also showed us his food garden initiative in Atlantis in the Western Cape.

Jason Wessenaar: Dumelang. {Sesotho} [Hello.] Jason is my name and I welcome you to Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group. Siyayinqoba means we can beat it. Each week I get together with my friends to share our experiences with living positively with HIV. Uma uphila negciwane le-HIV {IsiZulu} [If you are living with HIV] or you have a partner, a friend or a family member who’s HIV positive, Siyayinqoba is for you. Today we are talking about positive living. We have invited Dr Nombulelo to join us and answer some of our questions. There are so many things included in positive living, nutrition, stress management, exercise, avoiding alcohol and drug abuse but most important is nutrition. Let’s find out what goes into good nutrition

Shopping for good food

Cape Town

Anthony Fernandes: Ok Busi where are we today?

Busisiwe Maqungo: Fruit and Veg City, Roeland Street to come and shop for the Support Group.

Anthony Fernandes: That’s right and I think we’re going to cook something really nice today and nutritious so let’s go see what they have.

Busisiwe Maqungo: I hope we’re going to enjoy it.

Anthony Fernandes: Busi, here we go. We’re going to look at some eggs today which is a great source of protein. Not only eggs also meat, they say the eggs yolk is the same amount of protein than a 250 gram piece of meat. So it’s a really good source of protein. There’s free range…

Busisiwe Maqungo: What’s free range?

Anthony Fernandes: Free range means the chicken is a healthy chicken, it gets fed and it runs around in the farm and it doesn’t get fed in the factory, basically.

Busisiwe Maqungo: I didn’t know that.

Anthony Fernandes: It’s a healthy option, I tell you.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Now, are we going to mix the fruit?

Anthony Fernandes: You know, the keyword here is variety. We want to get a variety of various kind of fruit and vegetables. There’s a lot of fibre in fruit as well which keeps you healthy, keeps you regular. Fibre is fibre, the nutrition you get from fruit is pretty much the same thing all round. The keyword is variety, obviously what tastes good for you. Some fruit maybe have more sugar than others. Tomatoes, fruits are part of our protective and they sort of boost the immune system and help build good cells and that’s what we want to do here: get a variety of food in but also food that is healthy and helps us build stronger bodies. And it helps us fight the HIV actually.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Are we buying the full chicken or chicken pieces?

Anthony Fernandes: We’re going to buy some chicken pieces but do you know what is great about chicken? Not only is it healthy and a cheaper kind of meat source but it’s also a building food. And by building food I mean you know like a lot of people think people with HIV are really thin and skinny, that’s not really true because you know you can look any size, HIV is HIV and it’s going to get you. So it breaks down the muscles and it’s called the lean muscle of the body. I mean you want protein to help build your strong muscle and build up the body. And of course, garlic and ginger in its purest form, I love this. This is healthy, good stuff. Helps build the immune system and a lot of people don’t know how to cook garlic.

Busisiwe Maqungo: How do you cook it? Tell me because I just fry it with tomatoes and put my meat in.

Anthony Fernandes: You can chop it raw, you can roast it slowly for an hour in the oven, it becomes sweet, sweet, sweet like jam almost.

Busisiwe Maqungo: It becomes sweet when you roast it?

Anthony Fernandes: Mmm, slowly. And ginger, this is spicy, and kind of burny but also has a zesty flavour and fruity flavour to it. And you can smell it maybe. You are looking at the beans Busi.

Busisiwe Maqungo: In the township Anthony, many people don’t have enough money; most of the HIV positive people are poor people. So we don’t have money to buy some of the protein foods like meat and cheese but this is cheapest and the healthiest alternative.

Busisiwe Maqungo: R37.20, wow that’s good value for money.

Support Group

Dr Nombulelo Madala: I’m very happy that on the clip that Anthony mentioned the fruit groups in the basic term that is usually used to teach people to make sure that when they eat, they are aware that what they’re eating covers the important food groups.

Busisiwe Maqungo: We have green, we have red, we have yellow, we have brown, we have whitish.

Anthony Fernandes: What do you mean by that? I mean you just give colours but what do they stand for?

Dr Nombulelo Madala: If your plate is full of different colours of food, then it’s most likely that you are covering all the important food groups. And basically, that’s what we try and say in basic terms; terms that even a child can understand the need for variety when eating to make sure that you cover the different food groups.

Jason Wessenaar: Doctor, my plate is so full, is it important to eat a lot of food or just bits and pieces of food everyday? I know I’m not supposed to skip foods but is that important?

Dr Nombulelo Madala: There’s two concepts here, the quality and the quantity of food. And a lot of times when people are poor they are more concerned about trying to get the right kind of food and because of their limited resources they end up not doing well in that respect anyway. They forget that it’s also important to eat enough, we now talk about quantity. As we talk now about HIV which is a disease which eventually may lead to wasting on the basis of poor absorption of food because HIV can affect the lining of the gut and lead to poor absorption of food. So that’s where the quantity also plays a role: if one eats enough food , there’s enough to be absorbed into the blood to give all the nutrients the blood can get out of whatever food they are eating.

Nomandla Yako: You know if you tell the person about the healthy food, they really think you are talking about the expensive food. But they don’t know that even if you eat uba utya amaqanda, nesonka esi-brown utye netumata. Seyi-balanced diet yakho leyo. Abazazi abantu ezozinto, nyani bacing’ba uthetha ngokutya okudurayo. {IsiXhosa} [eggs, brown bread and tomatoes in the morning, you already have a balanced meal. People aren’t aware of these things. They think we’re talking about expensive food]

Busisiwe Maqungo: By quality, we don’t really mean that go out of your way to get very expensive food. I mean this is the cheapest, you get spinach for R2.00, umngqusho nasespaza next door kuwe ezistendini. {IsiXhosa} [you get samp at the spaza shop.]

Anthony Fernandes: Anything that’s taken it’s natural process out of it to make to look pretty is a waste because there’s no energy, there’s no vitamins, there’s no nutrition in it.

Prudence Mabele: Kubalulekile ukuthi ungasipheki i-spinach sakho kakhulu ugcine sowusifrayile, sesishintshe ne-colour sesiba-brown ngoba nje ubusifraya. Ukudla kwakho kuhlala ku-green. Awuchithi amanzi, uya-stima. {IsiZulu} [It’s important that when you cook your spinach, you don’t overcook it or fry it so that it changes colour and loses its nutrients. Your food must stay green. And don’t throw out the water, you must steam it.]

Nomandla Yako: Thina bantu bahlala kwii-township, inyama esiye siyitye amaxesha amaninzi, upensi, amaphaphu and ahamba namanqatha zonke ezizinto. Ingaba zi-healthy na ezonto? Noo-smiley? {IsiXhosa} [Most people in the townships are used to eating tripe, intestines, sheep’s head. Are all these things healthy?]

Dr Nombulelo Madala: One can actually survive without meat and this is what people find hard to believe. Because the balance of the things you have to do when you’re dealing with meat, you have to cook it enough so that you kill the bacteria but you are worried about what you’re doing to the proteins and the other things in the meat. And when you look outside the meat box, you look at what else is available to give me the protein I can get from meat. And then you’ll see that one can do a lot without having meat in their diet.

Busisiwe Maqungo: For me, I think there’s nothing wrong with tripe. Yinyama yenkomo {IsiXhosa} [It’s also meat that comes from a cow] When preparing tripe, you wash it over and over again until you are sure that it’s been properly and correctly washed. So ja…

Anthony Fernandes: It’s not the cleaning bit so much of the meat; it’s the live bacteria in the blood that’s the problem.

Busisiwe Maqungo: But you cook it properly.

Anthony Fernandes: If you cook it, you cook the blood out and it’s all evaporated and the meat is cooked well, then it shouldn’t be a problem.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Ja, we cook it well.

Vuyani Jacobs: I really get worried when people say to me: “Hey you have HIV, now you need to watch your diet” and I’m like what is watching my diet? Is watching my diet not eating samp? Is watching my diet not going to a corner and having the head of a cow or the head of a sheep? Because when I’m in Khayelitsha, icala lenkomo okanye icala legusha, u-Smiley. {IsiXhosa} [I eat sheep’s head there called Smiley] It’s cheap and I love it

Jason Wessenaar: What goes in my mouth is it healthy or is it harmful? And I think that’s a decision everybody can make because I definitely do drink wine but moderately. And I would never go to an extent of telling people not to do that because I want to promote positive life. I think it’s a decision that I have made and I will stand for the consequences of that.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Taking too much alcohol is not healthy for one. And with alcohol there’s too much involved when you are HIV positive, not only that it’s not good for your body but also if you get drunk, do you think you are going to stay on your ARVs in a very correct way? If you take them at eight, are you going to take, I mean at eight you are the shebeen?

Dr Nombulelo Madala: Yazi, zinintsi i-issues ngento ye-alcohol, kuyaphikiswana. Kona, kona i-alcohol iyayi-suppress i-immune system. {IsiXhosa} [There are many issues and arguments about alcohol. Alcohol suppresses the immune system] and that is a fact.]

Vuyani Jacobs: When I started ARVs I had a big problem because I used to go out a lot and I had to look at my lifestyle. The doctor advised me that: “Vuyani you need to look at the way you drink alcohol.” When I looked at that, my weight started getting better and I could find that I have a better eating habit. Now with alcohol you wake up with a hangover then you take your medication in the morning, you will have a revolution within your stomach.

Jason Wessenaar: More on positive living when we come back.

Jason Wessenaar: One of the biggest challenges in ensuring good nutrition is having food to eat everyday. The food garden movement is one solution. We join Uncle John in Atlantis to learn more about food gardens then we are off to the gym to join Busi and …

Growing your own food and exercising

Atlantis, Cape Town

John Vollenhoven: Ek maak nou al twee jaar tuine, groente tuine. Ek het gesien dit is te kort in onse lede hier wat mense wat leef met MIV. Navorsing het getoon dat vars vrugte en groente het ons nodig om ons immune stelsel op te bou. Ons kan nie net lewe van brood nie. Ons maak seker om baie groente te eet om ons se liggaam stelsels op te bou. {Afrikaans} [I’ve been growing vegetables for two years. I’ve noticed it’s a shortcoming among people living with HIV. Research has shown that we need fresh fruit and vegetables, to build our immune systems. We can’t live on bread alone. We need to eat lots of vegetables to build our bodies]

Jakob Trompetter: Ek is nie skaam nie om dit te kan bevestig dat ek MIV positief is nie. Daarvoor werk ek maar in die tuin om meer groente te kan eet en iets te plant wat my siekte kan bietjie afbring. {Afrikaans} [I’m not ashamed to confirm that I’m HIV positive. I work in the garden so I can eat more vegetables and to grow something that can reduce my illness.]

John Vollenhoven: Ja aartappels kan jy hele jaar in sit. Jakob, jy moet hierdie tamatie vasmaak.Tamaties moet een van die beter soort vrugte wat jy kan eet wees want hy kom hier uit onse tuine uit. As jy siek is, gaan haal kruie. As jy voel jy wil goeie “nutrition” hê, dan is daar sekere soort vrugte, daar is seker soort groente wat ’n groot deel vir jou doen. Veral nou as die winter aan kom, dan moet jy maar baie vitamin C eet. Hy is stroop soet. Al het jy hoe stukkie plek in jou tuin, maak ’n groente tuin; ek sal jou aanbeveel. Jy sal sien dit sal ’n groot voordeel in die lewe wees .Jy sal weet dit doen die dag as jy nie weet waar jy gaan kos kry nie, dan kan jy terug gaan na jou tuin en jou voetsel daar uit gaan haal. {Afrikaans} [You can plant potatoes all year round. Jakob, you must tie up these tomatoes. Tomatoes are one of the best fruit you can eat and it comes from our garden. If you’re sick, get some herbs. If you need nutrition, there are fruits and vegetables that hold great benefit for you. Especially with winter approaching, you need vitamin C. sweet as syrup. No matter how small the space is you have, make a vegetable garden. I recommend it, it will be to your advantage. When you don’t know where your food will come from, you can go to your garden for food.]

Onscreen Text: Busi pumps iron.

Busisiwe Maqungo: This is my gym, where I come to workout and get strong and beat HIV. I go to the gym because of positive living reasons; to keep fit, to keep in shape and to reduce stress. Exercising is also good to boost my immune system.

Dr Joalida Smit (Mental Health Professional): I think if you receive a diagnosis that you are HIV positive it would put more stress and strain onto you especially in situations where people are barely making ends meet as it is. An important factor is how you’re going to deal with the stress.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Although I don’t get depressed but I think going to the gym helps with fighting depression.

Support Group

John Vollenhoven: I started with this garden and for me it was in a way… I was sitting at home doing nothing and I was feeling weak but when I started this garden, suddenly I had this energy, suddenly I had something to do, suddenly I was looking out for something to do. I was looking every morning and here I am doing something and getting paid for it.

Dr Nombulelo Madala: Two of the ways HIV defeats a person emotionally; spending most of the time thinking about it which is bad enough because one should be thinking about other aspects of their life; and secondly thinking mostly negative things about HIV. So here he was, getting up every morning to the garden and most of the time his mind was occupied with his garden. That’s why we usually talk about stress in terms of negative and positive stress. Because it’s negative when stress defeats you, makes your body depleted and you just want to give up. But the positive aspect of stress is when it makes you get up and go, you’re like, this is a problem, it is stressing me, let me go and try and find a solution.

Anthony Fernandes: I mean for me as well when I discovered I was HIV positive, in the beginning there were so many worries and I thought what is the first thing that I’m going to do? How am I really going to handle it? Well nothing really changes my life other than how I’m going to live it. And it’s not like you become a fanatic and all of a sudden you are dead serious about everything. It’s just I started putting more thought into it and my whole exercise routine when I used to say: “Well whenever my next off day is going to be then I’m going to do my exercise”, and I thought no, I’ve got to have that kind of thing, because I really started to feel that the more I exercise, not only healthiest did I feel, but the more it gave my mind, I would think better thoughts. I felt really good about myself and the minute you start looking at the mirror and you see there’s nothing really wrong with you and you feel active and good about yourself, that’s when you healing HIV in a way, for me.

Dr Nombulelo Madala: You were not imagining things because exercise boosts the production of what is called endorphins which are feel-good chemicals in the blood. And that can only work very well for your immune system as well, so you were not imagining things. Exercise does have very good effects on what’s going on with you when you are dealing with a chronic illness. Or just dealing with stress generally, most people are stressed and they just think that these things only apply to people who have got HIV but it actually applies to all of us.

Jason Wessenaar: We wrap up our discussion on positive living when we come back.

Jason Wessenaar: Busi, you go to gym, how often do you go to the gym and how much time do you spend at the gym?

Busisiwe Maqungo: I spend an hour at the gym and I go almost everyday if I have enough time. Sometimes I go two or three times and that is enough for me. Before I learned more about this positive thing, I knew about my HIV status and I became open about my HIV status. Then I knew that people are going to start looking for this HIV in me and the first thing that they look for is losing weight; if I become skinny; there’s the AIDS. I didn’t want people to see the AIDS they are looking for. And as time went on I started to realise that I don’t have to look plumpy and the damage had already been done. As you can see in that thing, I looked very big, big bums, big face, big everything but now I’m looking a little slim and I hope you noticed that.

Bonile Peter: I’m impressed by what Busi has just said: you don’t have to go Cape Town or Mowbray in order for you to get a gym. For instance abanye abantu abanokwazi uku afforder to go to i-gym, ndinga thatha i-jog in the morning mhlambi in the afternoon or in the evinnings. Umane ubaleka mhalmbe I mean as specially mawuqala unovele nje ubaleka i-long distance. I man uyi thatha kancinci into. Sometimes uke uthi chu uphumla, sometimes umane uthi push ups uyabo. {IsiXhosa} [For people who cannot afford to go to a gym, you can take a jog in the morning or afternoon or evening. Jog regularly. At first you’ll take it step by step. Sometimes you’ll rest and the next time you’ll do push-ups.]

Busisiwe Maqungo: I’m not disciplined enough because if you’re going to do jogging and home exercises, you will need to be disciplined but with me, I do it today and if I don’t feel like getting up the following day, I don’t do it. So if I go to the gym at least I know that I’m going to meet people there. And when you are there you see people doing it and you think if they can do it, I can also do it. And you can even meet a beautiful, unmarried guy there.

Prudence Mabele: I do yoga, four times a week. Nto engiyithandayo nge yoga iyakukhonekta in your body, mind and soul. So mawulokho uyenza lama push , uyabona ukhonekted and nom’cabango wakho u positive. Yoga iya affodeka . Kukhona abantu abakhonayo ukuthi baze kuma support groups bazoyiyenza for free, as i-class kukho izindawo zakhona ezi like lapho ba-teacher khona like wena mabuyo ejimini akudanga nalopho sihlala ngakhona. [What I love about yoga is that it helps me connect my body, mind and soul. So while doing the push, you’ll have positive thoughts. Yoga is affordable. There are people who come to support groups and do it for free. There are also places where they teach yoga not far from where people live] I find it very stress relieving. Enye futhi yi reiki, i-reiki healing of the hands. Mawu stressed yenzani izandla so ngicela ukuthi nithathe izandla zenu ne bamba lomuno wokuqala, dlula futhi,dlula futhi,dlula futhi, dlula,futhi, yenza kwesinye futhi. {IsiZulu} [There’s one called Reiki. Reiki is healing with your hands. When you are stressed, this is what you do…] If you do that for 15 minutes you will feel different.

Vuyani Jacobs: Yoga is a middle class thing.

Busisiwe Maqungo: I also used to think that meditation is for people far away until I went to the support group for the first time and that’s where we were taught how to meditate. You do it on your own. In your bedroom, you sit in a relaxed way, you close your eyes, you think positively and there you go.

Dr Nombulelo Madala: The basic principles, whether it’s yoga, Tai-chi or Reiki; it’s relaxation and exercise in different combinations. Now my patients in Khayelitsha and KTC do not have a yoga or a Reiki class so what we should be telling people is back to basics again. The kind of relaxation that you feel when you are having yoga and Reiki is the kind of relaxation you feel if you are in a warm loving environment. So let the people in the community give our people who are HIV positive or sick that kind of environment where they are going to feel relaxed. So these are basics, I understand about the Reiki but if we unpack what the principles are behind the Reiki and Tai-chi it’s those two principles, relaxation and exercise.

John Vollenhoven: Is sex a kind of exercise?

Busisiwe Maqungo: It is, it is, sex relieves stress.

Jason Wessenaar: Positive living is about having a positive mind, a positive soul and a positive body. Thank you Dr Nombulelo and the Support Group.

Jason Wessenaar: Things we should remember:

1. Eat balanced meals daily.
2. Exercise and relaxation help you manage your stress.
3. Avoid alcohol, cigarette and other substance abuse.
4. There is no single recipe for positive living, do what works for you.

We hope that you’ve enjoyed the show and are feeling the Siyayinqoba spirit that together we can Beat It! If you have any questions for us or for Dr Nombulelo, please contact us on the numbers on your screen now. Thanks for being with us, ho fihlela bekeng e tlang {SeSotho} [join us again next week in the] Siyayinqoba Beat It! Support Group. Stay healthy and stay positive.

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