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Beat It! 2002 Episode 4

This episode addresses disclosing ones HIV positive status to ones partner and looks at HIV in the workplace. Dr Nombulelo gives an introduction to TB and TB treatment.

Nombeko Mpongo: Hello, I’m Nombeko Mpongo.

Vuyani Jacobs: And I’m Vuyani Jacobs and you are with Beat It! – the only guide for all of us infected or affected HIV/AIDS and that’s just about everybody in South Africa by now.

Nombeko Mpongo: If you are HIV positive or you have a partner, family member, friend or colleague who is positive Beat It! is for you.

Vuyani Jacobs: We’ve got a great show coming up. Nombeko what do you think is the most difficult thing for someone who tests HIV positive.

Nombeko Mpongo: Well, I think telling your partner that you are HIV positive is definitely one and the other must be the fear that you will lose your job if your employer finds out.

Vuyani Jacobs: You are right and those are the things for today.

Nombeko Mpongo: Let’s join our Support Group and hear what Anthony and others have to say.

Anthony Fernandes - Disclosing to one's partner
Cape Town

Andrew Kendell: He had something to tell me, but he didn’t say what it was and I had no idea what it could be and I had actually thought of all sorts of strange scenarios. None of them even close to the reality of what it turned out to be. And then finally he told me that he was HIV positive. And I thought about it for a moment and then I thought about if there are any implications. Had I done anything that I would have regretted and I thought really quickly about that but I knew right away that there was nothing that I had done that I would have regretted. So, I liked him a lot and I wasn’t going to let that change my opinion of him.

Anthony Fernandes: I think for me especially in the beginning was very difficult to tell someone I’m HIV positive. If I’m going to make the decision of saying I’m HIV positive, I’m going to be open about it and everybody can know about it then surely I have the responsibility to let them know before they get into the relationship. It was something I really struggled a long time. One, it is such a difficult thing to tell someone because they never know how they’re going to react. There are the occasions when people walk out of the room, there are occasions when people think really, oh that’s okay, that’s fine, I’m cool and I never see them again. When I met sort of the right person for me I thought this is where I’m going to make the difference right here and I said, after the first week of dating: “There is something I have to tell you. I’m HIV positive. This is who I am, I’ve known for a long time and this is my status.” He didn’t run away, he sticked. I said one of the things we going to do is we’re going to talk about it at least. So when the occasion arise we don’t have to fumble around and thinking oh should I have done that and not that. I said this is what you can do and this is what you cannot do. There is a certain risk involved from both sides. I think I was more worried that maybe I would slip up and infect him, but the more we talk about it and the more we practise safe sex the easier it really becomes.

Beat It! Support Group

Vuyani Jacobs: Now which one do you start first with? Do you start with telling someone you are HIV positive or do you start having the relationship first?

Nomandla Yako: It is wise to tell the partner, the negative partner, before you get in relationship. I’ve been in two relationships with negative partners but it didn’t work out, you know. Ndandibana ke nalomfana. Ndamxelela ukuthi ndiHIV positive but ja wathi uyandithanda, sathandana kakhuhle but ndathi find out lomfana lo usebenzisa icondom eziyi three. So ndaqonda hayi bo! Zange ndive into yecondoms izi three ndake ndathetha naye ne, ndamu qaqisela icondom isiyi three ngathi azirigthanga, iright eyi one kawuyifakhe kakuhle, into yayenzekha wayisebenzisa lecondom eyi one lomfana. Yase yagqabhuka yabona. Yagqabhuka wathi, zange asho phofu, uyabonakhe bendishilo zangasho ne but mna nda fila guilty, akwabe ndimuyekhe kwezicondoms zakhe eziyi three, but emvakoko irelationship azange iberight yabo. {IsiXhosa} [I met this guy. I told him that I’m HIV positive. He said he loves me and everything went well. But later I discovered that the guy was using three condoms. So, because I’d never heard of anyone using three condoms, I decided to approach him. I explained to him that it was not right to use three condoms. We should use one correctly. What happened: he used this one condom and it burst. It burst. He never said to me: “You see, I told you.” But I felt guilty. I should have let him use his three condoms. But after that our relationship was never the same.]

Prudence Mabele: You shouldn’t feel guilty about the, the fact that the condom broke because it is not your fault. This is why, continuously, we educate people in the how to put on a condom, ’cause that little area that you didn’t maybe touch to press the air out it can make it. He was busy to concerned about putting a condom about putting three condoms, he lost putting one condom.

Vuyani Jacobs: When do you put out the issue of condom? Or do you put out the issue of HIV, because I put out the issue of condom because putting saying: “Okay listen I don’t want any child. I don’t want a child. I don’t want anything to do with having a baby at all. So I’m going to use a condom.” I’m not even telling this person: “Okay, I’m HIV positive.” She end up coming and saying: “Listen Vuyani I’m not comfortable with this condom thing.” And then you start using, having sex without a condom. And then it goes on and on and on. She gets infected, she gets sick; in front of my eyes she gets sick, she gets full blown AIDS in front of my eyes. Here I am, knowing that I’ve infected this person. I couldn’t come again and say listen: “I think I gave you this HIV.” Out of my mind. I had to go to my own grave with that, but I can’t let anyone happen the same kind of situation. That’s why it’s openness surrounding HIV is quite a good thing. You don’t need to open it up in the newspapers, TVs, everywhere, but it’s good to family and in your own relationships.

Busisiwe Maqungo: I don’t think we should make it difficult for ourselves people like, you have a responsibility: I need to tell this person I am HIV. No, it doesn’t work like that. You really don’t need to disclose yourself to everyone odibana naye othandana naye [you meet or fall in love with]. The only thing ofuneka ubesure ngayo [you must be sure of is] that you practise safer sex. So what I always do in fact, before I met the person that I am with now, I never disclosed, bengi [I just] introduced the condoms. Ndandinga disclozi bendivele ndi introduce icondom, mna ke ndisebenzisa icondom umtwabantu, if ke awusebenzisi icondom then ke kuba uyandithanda and akanachoice ndixonda okay ke lets use icondom. Nakhulena icase yomtu ndithandana naye ngoku its like ndamxelela ukuba andizange ndimxelele ukuba ndiHIV positive ndamxelela xa ukuba mna ndisebenzisa icondom. {IsiXhosa} [I told the guy: “Well, I use condoms.” If he loves me he’ll have no choice but to use condoms. Even in the relationship with the guy I have now, I never told him straight away that I am HIV positive. I just told him that I u se a condom] then we started using econdom.

Bongiwe Mkhutyukelwa: Nomandla given the fact that you’ve been through these two relationships and you were so discouraged; do you have any relationship now? And if you do, do you have , do you use a condom or did you tell your partner about your status?

Nomandla Yako: You know I wouldn’t like to answer this question but I have too. You know I have two relationships. The other one is out of South Africa and the other one is here. The one who is out of South Africa knows that I am HIV positive, you know. The other one who is here doesn’t know, I didn’t tell him, but I introduced the condom.

Prudence Mabele: If I was your boyfriend I would dump you for just letting me know in Beat It! I would like to know now like go on Monday and do something about it.

Busisiwe Maqungo: If u [he] understand enough, akufanelekanga ukuba amudampe because okokuqala uyazi ukuba uyamthanda and mina kum into ebalulekileyo {isiXhosa} [he shouldn’t really dump her, because in the first place, he knows that she loves him. And to me, what I think is important] is that she introduced condoms. That is the main thing.

Nomandla Yako: Okay guys, do I have to tell everybody that I’m HIV positive because I need a life also. I’ve already told you my stories before. I told two guys that I’m HIV positive but the affairs didn’t work out. So, can you answer me that.

Busisiwe Maqungo: And I also tried that, to disclose to the people before I got involved with them then it never worked out. I just thought, no, time is moving.

Anthony Fernandes: Most people when they gonna find out about your status is gonna be shocked, is gonna wanna run away, is gonna say: “Why didn’t you tell me?” It’s best to try, again, from the beginning and say, there is something that I have to tell you: “I am HIV positive, Can you handle it?” If he can’t then he is not the right person for you.

Busisiwe Maqungo: Until when?

Anthony Fernandes: What do you mean until when?

Busisiwe Maqungo: Until when. What if all the guys do the same thing; they just say: “Oh, it’s cool” then they run away.

Anthony Fernandes: Then they must run away. Then it’s not the right person for you.

Busisiwe Maqungo: No it means that you will need to wait until you meet an also HIV positive person.

Anthony Fernandes: That’s not true I have a HIV negative person. I’ve got a negative lover and that person is not running away and didn’t from the first day that I tell him. So I’m saying it’s something that you have to practice, something that you have to get comfortable with. You are HIV positive person, you have a life of your own, you don’t have to tell everybody especially when it comes to casual sex, but when you come into a relationship, when a relationship is based on trust first, not sex first, trust, and then, that’s a different relationship you’re going to have.

Sandra Merino: I just want to agree there. I had a boyfriend who I had long time before I found out my status and when I told him that I was positive he completely left me.

Anthony Fernandes: I mean I completely disagree, I think you have to tell someone because you have the responsibility for being HIV positive. And if you want to be in a relationship, I mean that is when a relationship comes with trust first and secondly with sex.

Mathew Damane: I never say nothing with HIV, I just used the condom. I never said even one word about what was going on. I just preferred to use a condom. Protect yourself and protect myself. You don’t know me and I don’t know you and that was the end of the story, but since I disclosed, you know, it was much easier for me and when I approach someone I also disclose as well, you know.

Busisiwe Maqungo: You also did it!

Mathew Damane: I mean …

Busisiwe Maqungo: You just said you also just introduced the condom and you never said anything about your HIV status. We were also doing the same thing.

Mathew Damane: You must understand me clear Busi, what I’m saying is this, I disagree because you said, you and Nomandla said that: “No, it is not important to say because you’ll find that many of the guys run away from the fact that when you tell them that you have …

Busisiwe Maqungo: Why did you do it then? Why didn’t you just disclose your status right from the very onset?

Mathew Damane: It was not easy before.

Busisiwe Maqungo: It was also not easy for us.

Bongiwe Mkhutyukelwa: Nomandla is an ambassador of HIV/AIDS. How come is it so difficult to kuye ukudisclose [disclose] isistatus sakhe [her status] to her boyfriend? {IsiZulu}

Nomandla Yako: Ndifuna ukubuza are you sure ukuthi ipartner yami inegative. What if nayo ipositive, yintoni yifane nami ukuba ayizondixelela? {IsiXhosa} [I want to ask: are you sure that my partner is negative? What if he’s also positive but he just doesn’t tell me?

Busisiwe Maqungo: Why is it difficult for other people to disclose to their family’s at the, right from the very start. Because they have some fears that maybe my family won’t understand this; they are not well educated; the only thing that they know about HIV is that it’s only for people who sleep around and this person is soon going to die.

Prudence Mabele: I would say, we having parents and brothers, sisters who don’t understand our HIV status in many cases, we have to plan how we are going to tell them. And at the same time those people they are out of our choice. Whether you like it or not that mother is your mother, that father is your father, that brother is your brother; you can’t even swap them, even if you had a choice too. But with a relationship you can choose, you can just leave it and move on and start again. So I think we’ve got to tell our partners form that point of view, where we can tell our families. What we need to try and keep always, is this person is ignorant and now I’m just going to start and say my story in a better way. They understand, let them stay, if they don’t, tough luck.

Busisiwe Maqungo: If maybe it can happen that tomorrow we happen to in the, another relationship, we will do the same thing that you are doing. I’m 101% sure of that, but it just that we are still in the relationships where we had to do this. We were still no role models; we were still not open enough. And that cannot be changed people.

Vuyani Jacobs: There is no judgement in this whole kind of thing. We all have these kind of situations whereby we are bound by circumstances to do what we’re doing. That’s why I think this discussion is all about getting those ideas out and let everyone come out with what is best for you in any circumstance you are living with. Because living with HIV you have to create your own solutions. There is no clear direct way this says this is how you live up to A to Z.

Vuyani Jacobs: Welcome back to Beat It! – your guide to better living with HIV and AIDS. So what do you think of that Nombeko?

Nombeko Mpongo: When it comes to partners, try by all means to be open from the start. Everyone who is sexually active should be testing for HIV. To test positive is not the end of the world. The main thing is to take responsibility for not infecting others.

Vuyani Jacobs: That’s right. Next up is Doctor Nombulelo Madala with another page from her doctor’s notebook. The most common cause of death amongst people living with HIV is TB. The good news is that TB can be completely cured. That is why Doctor Nombulelo is speaking to us about TB. Let’s listen to the doctor.

Dr Nombulelo Madala’s consulting room

Dr Nombulelo Madala: Hi again at home. This is Doctor Nombulelo your HIV community doctor. TB is the commonest reported cause of death of HIV positive people in South Africa today. Yet we all know that TB is completely curable whether you are HIV positive or HIV negative. As long as you take your treatment as prescribed by your doctor and you finish the course of treatment. Yet it is still killing many of our HIV positive patients. The question is why is this still happening? The reasons for this lie in the following factors. There is a very high pool of TB in our communities. This is because a lot of people don’t finish there treatment. Also because of poor immunities from causes like alcoholism and poor diet and poverty and stress, there’s a lot of people that catch TB. It is caught through droplet infection when a person coughs or sneezes and another person can easily catch it. Also in the case of HIV positive people because of their poor immune systems they easily catch TB from other people who have it. Now unfortunately some of our HIV positive patients who have TB do not complete their treatment. What happens here is that the disease can then spread to other body parts like the brain, the meningis, the kidneys, the abdomen. When we restart TB treatment in a case like that sometimes it happens that the treatment literally cannot catch up with the disease and the person may die. The other danger of stopping treatment prematurely is that a person can develop what is called multiple drug resistant TB. This is a case where the TB has gotten use to the drugs, the usual drugs that are used for TB, and has become to strong for them. In this case we need to use stronger drugs. But this kind of TB also kills very quickly. The treatment for TB is the same for both HIV positive and HIV negative people. If a person has never had TB before we usually treat them for six months. This will entail taking these five tablets, Monday to Friday, for the first two months. If at the two months check up your doctor or clinic nurse thinks you are progressing well, they will usually stop the five tablets and continue for the rest of the treatment with these two tablets until you have finished six months in total. If you have had TB before however in the first two months you will use these five tablets and there will also be an injection everyday, Monday to Friday. After the two months if you are progressing well, the injection will usually be stopped and you go a further one month on those five tablets alone. In the third month check-up if you are doing well then the doctor will usually stop the five tablets and you will have to continue on these two tablets plus these three tablets for the rest of the treatment until you have finished eight months of treatment in total. That would be your treatment for TB. It is very important to complete your course of treatment if you have TB whether you have HIV or not. Please help your doctor or clinic nurse to cure your TB by finishing your course of treatment. Thank you. I am signing off now. I will speak to you again next time. Stay healthy.

Nombeko Mpongo: You’re watching Beat It! – your guide to better living with HIV and AIDS.

Vuyani Jacobs: In this week’s Special Report we meet up with V, a domestic worker, and her employer Angie. Domestic workers are often dismissed when the employer finds out they are HIV positive. Angie and V show that things can be different and reminds us that the law protects people with HIV from unfair dismissal and discrimination.

Special Report - HIV in the workplace

Veronica Xaba: From the first time I tested that I was positive I was very afraid, because I was afraid of loosing my job and I’m going to lose my friends or my boyfriend because they say: “Oh, you’ve got AIDS.”

Angie Roberts: My initial response was absolute panic and fear because I have a child who has a condition where her skin is exposed for a lot of the time. We’re required to pop blisters often, which is needle work and a lot of exposed skin and stuff, and Veronica had been doing a lot of it because I was back at work. And then I went for counselling, they said that it would be safer for you to keep your family with people that you know are HIV positive, it’s a open thing in the house everybody knows about it, and that you’re very careful, than employ somebody that you don’t know is HIV positive and may not be as cautious or may not love your children as much.

Mark Heywood (Head, AIDS Law Project): For people with HIV in terms of rights in the work place, the law is actually very clear and very supportive of people with HIV. And the Employment Equity Act specifically mentions HIV status. It specifically says that discrimination against people on the grounds of HIV status is unfair.

Myrtle Witbooi (General Secretary, SADSAWU): What we do find however in our day to day work that domestic workers are sent to the clinic or to the doctor to have a flu test without realising that they are actually going to have an HIV test and then about a month after the employer will call them in and say: “Look I’ve got some bad news for you, I can’t keep you anymore; you are HIV positive.”

Mark Heywood: The Employment Equity Act goes further and prohibits HIV testing. It has what we call Section 7 (2) that says that employers may not request employees to test for HIV.

Zwelinzima Vavi (General Secretary, Congress of South African Trade Unions, COSATU): I think it is a responsibility of both the employers and the government to make sure that these drugs that can improve the conditions of those living with the virus are accessible. The battle is about accessibility and affordability of the drugs.

Veronica Xaba: The drugs that I am taking are AZT, 3TC and Nevirapine.

Angie Roberts: Her CD4 count has climbed. She is a different person; much better, much happier, smiling again.

Veronica Xaba: But it also give me hope, or everybody, that’s got… that is positive. I want to rest, but I’m still okay, I’m still strong to work. I’m very happy because I am not going to die now.

Angie Roberts: There has been a great improvement since V’s has been on the ARV programme, the pilot programme, but unfortunately I don’t think she is up to capacity work wise yet. Also, I think what has crept in with her illness; her condition rather, is that through her getting sick, quite a lot, I have obviously been fairly lenient on what is expected of her work wise.

Myrtle Witbooi: The domestic worker is the most oppressed work force within South Africa. They are isolated, they are exploited, they’ve got the lowest possible slavery wages and now on top here comes HIV, here comes AIDS.

Mark Heywood: Having laws on paper is one thing but having actual implementation and compliance, people following those laws, is another thing. Trade unions have to teach their members about the existence of these laws and have to encourage people to take advantage of these laws.

Hassen Lorgat (Media Officer, South African Democratic Teachers Union, SADTU): The case of Mrs Mhkize who has been a pioneer in fighting ignorance and discrimination has also helped because she has been willingly going out in the frontier trying to fight, to make teachers who are HIV positive be acceptable.

S’bongile Mkhize (Teacher): I had to tell the principal that I am HIV positive because the parents were complaining because of my absenteeism. I was expecting the sympathy from the management and the district office and from the Department of Education but to my surprise I was so traumatised in such a way that I could not go anywhere.

Mark Heywood: HIV is still a very stigmatised illness. So workers who get sacked because of HIV don’t often want to go and tell the shop steward that they sacked me because I had HIV. So quiet often people hide, the discrimination, even the victims of the discrimination hide the discrimination.

S’bongile Mkhize: I was expelled because it was found that the parents said I am going to infect their children.

Mark Heywood: The Constitution says that people have the right to fair labour practices; and the Constitution says people have rights to equality.

Hassen Lorgat: For me people will come out and break discrimination they’ll break the stigma if there is a clear path ahead. If you are HIV positive you are treated this way, of course it is education led, but there is access you don’t have to die tomorrow. When that hope is given, then really more people will come out.

Zwelinzima Vavi: Discrimination by workers of other workers, discrimination of workers by management, including wanton dismissals, refusal to cover by insurance companies, by medical AIDS of those that are affected by the disease continue in all workplaces in our country unabated. We’ve got to unite as the working people against HIV/AIDS.

Vuyani Jacobs: Many people are still being unfairly and illegally dismissed because of their HIV status this makes it hard for you to be open about your HIV status and drives the epidemic underground.

Nombeko Mpongo: And that undermines safer sex and prevention.

Vuyani Jacobs: And that’s our show for the week. Please take down the numbers on your screen now and give us your opinions and comments.

Nombeko Mpongo: Yes and be sure to be with us next week on e at the same time.

Vuyani Jacobs: And don’t forget the repeat broadcasts on Sundays at half past eleven. And remember together we can Beat It!

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