Home / 2006 / 2006 TAPE 123 - Access to ARVs, Westville Prison - Sifiso Zulu, Sipho Mthati, Zackie Achmat, TAC.

2006 TAPE 123 - Access to ARVs, Westville Prison -

Sifiso Zulu, Sipho Mthati, Zackie Achmat, TAC.

The TAC is joined by ex-Westville Prison inmates to talk about the problems facing HIV positive prisoners in accessing treatment. Sifiso talks about how you are not allowed to be tested for HIV unless you are bedridden and how inmates went on a hunger strike to attract attention to the plight of HIV positive inmates. Sipho Mthati talks about how what the Department of Correctional Services is doing is unconstitutional.

Zackie Achmat: I'm Zackie Achmat from the Treatment Action Campaign and with me are some of my colleagues from the Treatment Action Campaign. I will be chairing this press conference this morning. On my left is Comrade Sifiso Zulu, he is an ex-inmate in Westville from prison, I believe he's been released because he is one of the trouble makers, so he will give you some ideas what is like to be in a prison and what it's like there. And he is joined by comrade Photo Mbele and he's out recently and going to explain to you what it's like having HIV and what conditions are for prisoners with HIV and prisoners who wish to be tested. Comrade Promise, we will be speaking to you, she has a brother who's an inmate and has HIV who is in Westville and she will be speaking as a perspective of what happens to family members outside; the anxiety, pain and so on. And then our general secretary Sipho Mthathi, who you know, will be speaking and say a few words and my colleague Xolani from KwaZulu province and comrade Zade Mdilithe Patrick he will say one or two words.

Sifiso Zulu: [I would like to greet you all. As comrade Zackie has said I'm Sifiso Zulu. I was an inmate in the Westville medium B prison I was sentenced in 2000 and sentenced to 15 years. This means that I stayed in prison probably for 6 years 2 months in my sentence. I was diagnosed with HIV in 2000 on the 12th November after was sick for 2 months.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [What was happening the time I was in Westville, the time I started to see the signs and suspected that I was HIV positive. They told me that they cannot do an HIV test unless I'm bedridden. What happened is that I then got tested when I was terminally ill later. About December 2000 is when I got tested because I was bedridden. The most painful thing is that some people couldn't recover because their blood was tested very late and they died without taking treatment. As the time goes as a member of the HIV Net support group, which was coordinated by Mrs. Z. Hlangu, who was the one trying to help - though they blocked her because they didn't want donations to come in - and also NGOs like TAC since 2000 up until 2005.] {IsiZulu}

[It is when we noticed that because our brothers are dying and many of our support group died, but I can't mention their names but their names are on the Westville list. We then started the hunger strike in May which is the one that helped us because it was when we started to contact the TAC here in KwaZulu Natal Province and they are the ones who helped us to portray the pain that was happening inside prison. What I would like to clearly say is the following; the hospital administration is the one that I really blame. They are the ones who have a great impact on the death of prisoners. Quickly, what I can say is that if you are living with HIV, staying in Westville Prison that is not a place, you better die, if you know that you HIV positive you better ask the police to shoot you dead because you going to die painfully without being cared for and without treatment.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [I'm going to talk more about the administrations because when you have opportunistic infections you experience a major problem, there's only one doctor, Dr Maharajah, who arrives at 10:00 and consults the inpatient people who are already admitted in the hospital up until about 12:00. From then on he will consult the outpatients who come from the section, because we have 15 sections in medium B and they have a time table so each section is attended once a day. Usually you'll find that maybe sixty prisoners want to consult the doctor by the time the doctor comes from the inpatient section at 12:00. You'll find that the doctor is going to consult 60 patients in one hour from 12:00 to 13:00.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [That is where there the problem starts, he only consults ten or eleven and if you are sick you have to go back and you will come on the next turn which is going to take about three weeks. The fact that how sick you are is not considered, that is what I can say about Westville. In the issue of HIV; what happened was the Department of Correctional Services, what I want to say is they don't have heart, the authorities are like people who have never ever gave birth to anyone because prisoners die in front them though they know that the operation of an HIV/AIDS policy says we should be assessed or referred to the ARV sites, but they never did that up until the case was sent to court. I thank you all my brothers, like Zackie Achmat, all of them from national level to provincial level and I also thank you very much AIDS Law Project. Thank you.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [As my colleague has said, I'm Sifiso Zulu and an ex-offender and I'm just recently released, on the 29th of June this year. I was sentenced to 15 years.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [The reason why they discharged me so early then? I think I might say it is because of the release policy or because I was an activists on HIV/AIDS, fighting for the rights of all our fellow offenders who were in prison, to share some of the experiences in the Westville medium B. I was diagnosed with HIV in the 12th of November 2000 when I was admitted on the 9th of April after being terminally ill or bedridden, because when I suspected that I might be having HIV/AIDS they didn't want to test my blood. They told me that they can test me for HIV only when I'm bedridden, that is why in since 2000 the number of prisoners who were dying because of AIDS was so high, it is because you are not allowed to do an HIV test if you not bedridden. Up until this far if you go to the hospital and ask for an HIV test they refuse and tell you that only if you are bedridden.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [I was suffering from TB, that was in 2000, for 11 months and I was bedridden, that's when I got tested HIV positive, from there I joined the support group coordinated by Mrs Hlangu. Even though we had some problems in the support group whereby no NGO was allowed to help, even if it was helping at its own expenses, they were just not allowed. Until 2005 when we decided with our level of offenders and with the executive of the support group that it is time now that we must engage ourselves in a hunger strike. That is when we liaised with the TAC and the AIDS Law Project. So that is when they started to negotiate the issue of ARVs. And to my surprise those authorities who are in charge of health at Westville in medium B, I think they don't even have children, they don't have a heart because what I'm talking about is what happening in front of their eyes they know and they are hiding it.] {IsiZulu}

Sifiso Zulu: [When they go to the public they say a different story, they say something different from what is happening inside, they are misleading the public and giving the wrong information to the public. Just recently one of our fellow bras has given me all the names of our fellow bras who have a died since the 30th of June till today, the 20th, that means the issue of ARVs is very serious and nobody is committed, even the area commissioner himself. He is supposed to be tasking a team who can escort those candidates who are already qualifying for the access to ARVs but they not doing it. At the time when I was discharged there were only three members who were appointed to escort offenders who are qualified to get ARVs to Philani clinic here in King Edward. There were lots of problems whereby some of the inmates missed their appointments because there is no one to escort them. Sometimes they will tell you that they are having a staff meeting and they are opening round about 10:00. Most of our people like my brother who started on ARVs and died inside, he couldn't have a chance to take them correctly because they were taking us to (...) from 9:30 to 10:00 and by that time, the time that was prescribed by the doctor was at seven so if they open at 09:30, then you will have a problem.] {IsiZulu}

Sipho Mthati: I'll point out administration. There is no one doing a proper administration in terms of medical terms of medium hospital. The medical members and the officials at large behave badly. They stigmatize once they know that you're HIV positive, then you're like an animal there's no place for you. Thank you.

Photho: [I come from Westville, I was sentenced to 15 years in 1998 and I got sick in 1999 and I got admitted in the hospital and they found that I'm suffering from TB. After I diagnosed with TB I was admitted for six months in the hospital, then after that I came back to the section. When I came back to the section I then got tested for HIV and the results were HIV positive. I then started to look for the support group and joined. In 2003 I got sick and admitted to the hospital again and was not getting helped fully and I then came back to the section in the same year. In 2005 I got sick again with TB and I got treated in the hospital. It is when I started to join as a volunteer to help my brothers in the hospital because I saw that when the person is terminally ill there were put alone in the isolation room, not washed, cared for and not even being helped by feeding him. The food just is just thrown to the person. In the morning they come back without it being eaten and that was hurting us as people living with HIV.]  {IsiZulu}

Photho: [As I was hospitalized things that I saw there, when an HIV positive person is sick up to the fact that he is soiling himself and was put in a nappy in the morning and when he soiled himself again he would not be changed again and be left like that till tomorrow. People who are living with HIV/AIDS and are in Westville are not released on medical release. People who get medical release in Westville are people with families that can afford to hire lawyers and doctors. In the Westville prison a sick person with his families his things are quick. My brothers who are inside there in Westville have no proper food, but people with other diseases have the proper food. But with the person who is HIV positive they will tell you that they don't know what to give, they can't give you food because they don't have a dietician.] {IsiZulu}

Photho: [The other thing that they say is that there's nothing you can do if you HIV positive and in prison because they are the one who are close to Manto Msimaga Tshabalala and Ngconde, so there's nothing they are going to do for you.] {IsiZulu}

Promise: One of my family members is HIV positive and in Westville prison. The problem is when he needs to see the doctor in prison he can't, the reason to that is the doctor comes at 10:00 and he only sees ten patients a day that is the problem. Another problem for him is his CD4 count is now dropping. As we know that if you are HIV positive and experiencing the opportunistic infections the CD4 count will drop down. Another thing which is also the problem is the meals, the time for meals is if they started breakfast at 08:00 the lunch will be at 13:00 and they will get the food the next day. As a person who is living with HIV I'm very concerned about these people and I can't help them while they are still inside. I think department of health and of correctional services must do something about these people because no matter how wrong they are they are still human beings.

Sipho Mthati: I think the issues are simple. Comrade Sifiso has said it that our correctional services department is committing an unconstitutional act and the officials who work for correctional services department has broken the law because the law, the law of the country is very clear that prisoners must be punished for committing crimes, but because the state incarcerates them and takes away their freedom the state has a responsibility to ensure that they have the right to dignity and life is protected and therefore there's access to health care services.

Sipho Mthati: We know that our prisons are institutions of high risk for HIV infection and there's a lot of prisoners who are in prison and many of whom have not even tested. Yet the department of correctional services has not outlined a plan to deal with that reality and in fact does not have a plan to deal with the emergency particularly for prisoners who have HIV and need AIDS treatment now. That has been demonstrated, the insensitivity that Sifiso referred to of correctional services department officials.

Sipho Mthati: Has been best demonstrated in the course of this trial where, instead of saying we know and this has been reaffirmed by the regional director of correctional services, that we know that in Westville prison alone immediately now 50 prisoners need access AIDS treatment because their CD4 counts are below 200 and indeed he has urged Westville prison to immediately address that and make sure that those prisoners have access to treatment. And yet what we have seen, despite the court order that was issued by Judge Pillay on the 22nd of June, which said that all the impediments and excuses that the department has said as explanations for why they were not ensuring treatment to prisoners with AIDS in Westville, that those must be immediately removed and the department and prisoners officials must make sure that those 50 more prisoners have access to treatment immediately.

Sipho Mthati: We know that the case has been brought by 15 prisoners who have said that will testify that this is what has happened to us and that in fact many of us do not have an access to treatment and fear that we will die and we therefore protest the state continuing to give us excuses and braking it's constitutional duties to ensure that they have access to health care. But we know that this case and yes this case is about those prisoners and those prisoners must have immediate release from the court. And we are therefore anxious that Judge Pillay, as much as he must make sure that due court process is undergone, but he must not back down on what he said was the recognition of the court. This is the matter of life and death, that urgency must guide the actions of correctional services department.

Sipho Mthati: So we are disappointed that the appeal and judgement is only going to be made known next week. However we recognize that court processes must take their course, but I think for us the more urgent concerned is that by Monday by Tuesday we don't know how many of those 50 and more prisoners will have died because we know that for them every minute counts and they don't have the luxury of time and the luxury of making every body happy, because that's what the court must do. So I think it's urgent that what we asked for and what 15 prisoners ask for, that is the immediate execution of the court order which will make sure that urgently the department of correctional services would provide treatment to those who immediately and who have been identified to need treatment is implemented.

Sipho Mthati: And on top of that plan is outlined by department of correctional services, because we know it's not enough to just say we will treat some of the fifteen prisoners who have brought the case. It's not enough to say we will treat the fifty prisoners who have already identified to have low CD4 counts because we know there are hundreds of prisoners who's CD4 counts are not been done, who need their CD4 counts to be done so that they can have what is due to them because, as the law says, prisoners rights are human rights.

Sipho Mthati: So we reiterate the calls made by the 15 applicants we have supported in the trial as well as the comrades who have been released whom themselves don't know where to go because the states programme outside is going so slow and in fact they don't know if urgent action is taken to ensure that for themselves they can have access to treatment, they don't know what is going to happen to them. So it's urgent that correctional services is having this plan to treat people because it is criminal that these comrades are released without having access to treatment despite their CD4 counts have been demonstrated that they need access to treatment. We also say that it is criminal for the state in and outside of prison, in particular outside of prison, that there are many people without treatment. The issues of Westville demonstrate what we have said all along, that we do not believe that the state is really committed to saving lives because if they were they would not make us sit in court and argue technicalities when they know what they should be doing.

Zackie Achmat: Thank you Sipho. The whole question is all about what's happening in the roll out and our work showed that at Muhammad Magadi, one of the sites, there's a waiting list of 1300 people which we are trying desperately to ensure that government accredits the community health clinic that's affiliated to the hospital so that the waiting list could reduce. There are 1300 people on the waiting list in that place alone, it's critical for us, we want to help government to get resources for pharmacies, doctors and nurses and so on but government is not showing the leadership in the urgency. So I'm opening for questions around DCS and my colleagues will answer all your questions that you may have.

Mike: I just want to know what are you going to say when people outside who are waiting for ARVs come to you and say the prisoners; criminals are jumping the queue and receiving before them?

Zackie Achmat: Any additional questions. Sipho take that one.

Sipho Mthati: That question has been already asked and it going to be asked again because we know that people have issues and it's a difficult issue for people because these are the violators of our rights, so why should we be supporting their rights. I think for the Treatment Action Campaign we are guided by the fundamental issue of everyone's right to life and dignity. We therefore fully endorse our constitutional principles that yes, people must serve their sentence and the state must take away some of their freedoms, but the state and none of us in fact has the right to take away the dignity to life. Our constitution and what we stand for as an organization is the right of all humans, of all, and that is why we are supporting prisoners the same way that we would support anybody whose rights in a democratic South Africa are being violated.

Sipho Mthati: So it's a difficult question we understand and we are sensitive to that, but it would be unethical to say that just because some people are prisoners that therefore, despite living with HIV, they can't be supported to have the same rights as everyone else. And also the important issue to point out to the communities is that those people are incarcerated and they are serving their sentences and therefore it is not that they're being allowed to violate people's rights so the state has a duty in that matter. As difficult as it is we cannot fail in our duty to protect their rights equally.

Sipho Mthati: You will hear comrade Sifiso and comrade Photo again testify that many prisoners are being released for something called medical parole which basically means you are too ill to be incarcerated, so that is exactly what happening, that prisoners who are very ill instead of being provided medical care and treatment are in fact being released on medical parole. We are saying that yes in cases of severe illness people must be released but they must be released to hospitals. What has happened is that some prisoners have been released without any support and plan to make sure that they get proper care.

Sipho Mthati: We believe that that is dumping people, which is obviously unconstitutional because people need to be released on the basis that they will get support. We know of a comrade now who is ill, who has a TB and CD4 count is very low, who was released a couple of weeks ago and we know that this is happening in many prisons.